Inside Independent Filmmaking with Producer/Director King Hollis #304

In this episode of The Screen Lawyer Podcast, Pete Salsich chats with Dallas-based filmmaker King Hollis about his path through the film industry, from early projects to navigating the realities of independent filmmaking.

They cover storytelling, representation, creative problem-solving, and the business side of bringing ideas to life. Whether you're a filmmaker, creative, or just curious about how films get made, there's something in this episode for you.

Original Theme Song composed by Brent Johnson of Coolfire Studios.
Podcast sponsored by Capes Sokol.

Learn more about THE SCREEN LAWYER™ TheScreenLawyer.com.

Follow THE SCREEN LAWYER™ on social media:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheScreenLawyer
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheScreenLawyer
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScreenLawyer
Instagram: https://instagram.com/TheScreenLawyer

The Screen Lawyer’s hair by Shelby Rippy, Idle Hands Grooming Company.

Transcript

0:00

One of the great pleasures of my job is getting to work with talented filmmakers from all over the country, including sometimes on projects in Saint Louis. And today we're going to be joined by King Hollis, based in Dallas, Texas, producer, director and all around amazing filmmaker. King, are you ready to get this started? Let's do it. All right. Welcome to The Screen Lawyer Podcast. I'm Pete Salsich, The Screen Lawyer. And joining me today on this episode is King Hollis, producer, director, filmmaker based in Dallas, Texas. King, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me, Pete. I really appreciate you taking the time to join us. And I'm excited about this conversation. To give people a little bit of background, I've gotten to know King in the last year. We've been working fairly closely together on a project that you've heard us mention from time to time called Spaghetti Wars, and we will dig into that. But I, in that process, which often happens, you get to know more about the people you work with and the other things that they do, or the things that brought them to the point where you got to interact. And I want to spend a little time with King today digging into some of those things. So, King, let's start. Tell the audience, sort of, you know, a little bit about your background, kind of the work that you do generally before you got to Spaghetti Wars. Well, you know, I've been in the industry now for 33 years. I started making films with Moses. You know, I, I was at a festival the other day. I was talking to some kids about some films that, of course, they were not born when they were produced. So I've been doing this for a while. I started off, you know, kind of, running around University of Texas. Did not get my degree. That's a whole nother story. We'll do that in a follow up episode of episodes. Crazy story. The Cliff notes Pete is. I posed as a student for two and a half years. I know we'll get to that. So I, was around you went and met some fellow filmmakers, and, you know, we branched out and, you know, I started off moving in one of the production companies into the office as a just a mover. I wasn't even in the business. And two weeks later, they hired me on a Grandy’s commercial. And so it began, you know, began that journey. But prior to that, actually, I was at UNT doing short films and, and we won a couple of, won a handful of awards for our short films. And I was directing, writing and producing those shorts. And then fast forward. Next year I'm moving this company. They hired me, you know, two weeks later at that point. You know, I had been writing my own materials since I was 19 for years. And then I started filming at UNT. And then they got me in the business with that one gig. You know, I got the job. I was a PA. Yeah. This is where everybody starts, right? It's doctor's ..... production assistant. They're like, hey, I want you to come PA. I'm like, what's that? Right inside. I had no idea that, you know, in high school was a story teller, wrote short films, were portraying and things of that nature. And, let me see these short stories and, you know, had a love for storytelling and so when I moved those folks into that company, you know, I knew I wanted to do this. I've been doing this for about a year independently, you know, had no idea what this ride was going to take me. Right. It was taken all over the world. I've shot in many different countries. Shot all over the United States. And, you know, I mean, I've actually made a living at this crazy business. Yeah. Which is something. Yeah. You know, it's it's it's a tough gig, but, you know, I will tell you this at the end of the day, Pete. I love what I do because I get to do it with who I love. And so. Yeah, well, that's a really special thing for me. Yeah, I think that's, it's it's interesting you say that, and I my own version. I have a similar version of that and that I think if you're fortunate in, in whatever career your path is, if you are able to find a way to work with people that you admire or want to be like, you know, and not everybody you work with is always going to be like that. And I'm sure I'm not always like that for somebody else. But you know, more often than not, if you're able to chase a dream and that allows you to work with the kind of people and the kind of projects that you love yourself, then it's not really work, or it doesn't feel like work in the same way. Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. So how do you get into, how did you get into sort of the next step, like you started as a PA? Was there a break or a particular project that you elevated or began to take over, or that just sort of take time? So the interesting thing was, before I became a PA, I had already produced, directed and wrote an independent short film. So I got a taste of what that, you know, above line thing. I, I was running the set. I was, you know, budgeting. I was, you know, organizing logistics. And so I had a little micro dose of that in the independent world. Right. So I said I was taught formally how to do these things. Yeah, right. And there's a difference between, you know, the education you get at colleges, whereas it's almost like in my opinion, a lot of these film schools need to be more, almost a little more like trade schools. Yeah. Yeah. With a lot more hands on integration to the industry. Well, I kind of did that on the actually, because as I was PA’ing and getting work as a PA and became like a good PA, right? I was still doing independent films like the year after that. I did it, but first produced my first feature, and I had already directed, two short films, you know, music video. And so I was constantly directing and producing shorts. Yeah. And I was getting my next PA gig and then exploring other departments. Hey, I'll be RPA. Right. Which I love that when the genie, you know, gripping electric became a grip became an electric. Wasn't that great at it? I was a kid, you know, and I was okay as a drip. And, you know, I worked on the Newton boys. I was an electrician for the Newton boys. So it wasn't that I. You know, I was unhirable. I didn't have the patch, all right? I could certainly do the work. Sure. I was, you know, former athlete, you know, big kid, whatever. And so I could do the work. And so as I was moving up and kind of going to different departments, my independent world, you know, I just directed the feature at directors. Sure. I just I know excuse me, I produced a feature directing, though. Sure. Directed another short, produced another stream. So I was staying in the narrative and doing that. And then at the age of like, I don't know, like 25, I go, I was making my own company. So me and my father had started on coming to I know nothing about nothing, right? Right. My business, my insurance, taxation, nothing. I knew how to shoot things. Sure, I'm a company. Right. And so I just jump into that. And that became kind of this entrepreneur spirit in me, where I realized that I couldn't just be an artist like I had to be. You know, there was this word, some guy phrase, like an entertainment preneur or something I had to be use. Yeah, film or you had to. You had to be all things. Because in the independent space, you are all things. That's right. Yeah. You know, the industry was I was I was learning from technicians. The best key grip was key grip in the in the state that, you know, had worked on endless movies. The best best boy, the top gaffer. Right. The first. The best first ad team. Second ad team. Like, I was learning from the best line producers and all the A-listers in our market that worked on big Texas shows, but also Hollywood came to town. They were the first picks, right? Those are my people that I studied under. And the list goes on and on. The mentors that I started studying under in Texas. Jeff Bednar, Snorri Nevin, Brad Morano, Steve Miller, you know, there's countless people that know I'm leaving out a thousand people with. Sure, my career. And so, Phil Phifer, who was Robert Robert Redford's scope more says, and, and Oliver Stone's second director. He's one of my mentors, and he's originally from Texas. So these are these are, you know, so that's that's how it was. It was it was like, I'm learning tactically, technically and using at a high level while I'm over here independently making my own films. Right. And constantly doing that. So I kind of had the best of both. Yeah. You really started learning both at the same time. And I think that's, you know, I, I think that's a somewhat common journey. I think for people that come up and end up in that above the line role where you are, now, you know, and in our working together, obviously as a director, but also I watch you work with the team and it's you guys are everybody's involved in sort of the business structure and, and putting the deal together from the financing and the distribution planning and all of those aspects of the project. But you also, you know, to your point, maybe you weren’t the best key grip ever, but you you spent time in each of those different departments. You have a respect for what those departments are, why they're important, who's really good at the jobs in those departments. And yet, while, you know, you you mentioned sort of the best way to learn, in the sense that when you were comparing to the like, if you were sitting in a film school and you took a class on being a PA or a grip or any of these other things, that's useful information. But it's not the same as learning on set. And I think by the fact that you were already doing this work without really knowing what it needed, but just had a sense, well, I gotta have this. I got it right. I got a director, got to move the set. I'm going to do all these things. Then when you get on a real set and you get to work with real pros, you've already created that gap in your knowledge that can be filled in. Right? You've already experienced the I gotta try to do this, but I don't really know how. And then, oh, now I have something. So I think it's a it's a powerful way to learn and advance by first getting out there and making mistakes on your own. You know, and growing from there. And I think that's when you're talking about this time period in Texas. And I remember meeting some of the, folks who were up from Dallas last fall on the Spaghetti War set, and they were talking about, you know, I don't know, maybe ten, 15 years ago, whenever the tax credit in Texas was really becoming a bigger deal, because obviously, as you know, in Missouri, we now have film tax credits now for we're in our second full year. And it's create a lot of energy here in the state throughout the state of Missouri and Saint Louis in particular. But you were sort of coming up at a time in filmmaking in Texas where there was all kinds of stuff happening at that time. Was it was it just a ton of energy or a lot of opportunity, or how did what did that feel like? There's been different ways in the city. The Dallas film goes back to the 1920s, really, but not and interestingly enough, part of the lore of the 20s and 30s, filmmaking was there's also a early enclave of African-American filmmakers, and there's a group of films that are on nitrate plates that are that were once at the SMU archives. Wow. So there's a long history of filmmaking in Dallas. The first producer, Benji, when it came out in the 70s through Dallas. Producer. And so there was a kind of a legacy that that unknown legacy, actually, I've been working on developing, historical film about that, about the film history of Dallas. But when I was a kid, you know, people remember that, you know, Dallas was the number one show in the country, right? And I actually worked with people that worked on that show were cool. And the Walker, Texas Ranger. And so there was like this episodic thing going on. Right? But it'd be a really good place for an occasional A-list film to come in. And it became a really a place where independent filmmakers from Texas, not Texas, would come because it was good labor, but at a cheaper cost. Sure. And so when I got in the business, it was really a commercial market, right? A lot of agencies were based in Dallas, a lot of fortune 500 moved to Dallas. So you had a lot of that going on. And then so in the 90s, it was really like, man independent film was popping in in the commercial. Thing is booming here. I mean, big campaigns were shot in Dallas, right, that people know about. And that's kind of what it was. And then it's a 2000s rolled around, you know, technology's changing. Streaming's coming is, is, is is being born. And all of a sudden, ten years later, after the millennial, you know, people are like, hey, listen, we need to support this thing. And here comes the tax. And so yeah, there was a big, you know, boom of we were already kind of established, you know, at the time when we're going to be the Third Coast, you know, and all that. And then Texas basically got left behind in the incentive process because incentives had kicked in. But we were ahead of other cities in the south southwest of production. But we started falling behind incentives. So they Texas dipped their toe in incentives. And you know, my partner Barry and I you know, we were we we were got incentives, you know, production in in that in that time period. And there was the energy that was going on. But what kind of happened was did the state wouldn't go far enough and people started leaving the market. So interesting. 2011, 12 when incentives was there and they weren't, you know, as strong as we need them to be. But they're really something, right, people. Independent filmmakers were trying to stay. I got personal friends and they left and we had people moved to New Orleans, they moved to Atlanta, they moved to New Mexico. And so we had a lull. where we were booming for for decades. We were, a production town and in a lot of production towns. And we say, are they a three tier town? In other words, can I crew three tiers of A-list talent in one town? Yeah. So, so really like the the depth of crew. Do you have enough for multiple things going on at the time? Do you have department heads? Yeah. Mid-level crew, all of that in you crew three a-list crews. That would kind of nearly the same time, right? Yeah. We had gotten to a point where we could say, yeah, we can give you three crews at the same time that started to drop off because work started in the economy, started getting affected. Advertising age, you start getting cut, start doing a lot of in-house productions and agencies. So doing in-house, creative and all that work, work started slowing down the agency side with our, our, incentives are not as strong as in the states. So you sort you start seeing some A-listers leave the market. Right. So that hit us. And what I anticipate now with the new incentive that just been added to Texas, which is a big one. Yeah. It has some things that are weird about it that I don't like, but I think you're going to see some people actually move back home. Yeah, yeah. And that's the kind of thing that's kind of thing that we're, you know, we're hoping will happen in Saint Louis. So we're obviously, you know, a dozen years or more behind. And while we you I think you said it. Well, our tax incentive program here in Missouri is pretty good. It works well. It covers a lot of things. It's generous. It's it's the film office in the State Department said run it are genuinely in my opinion, trying to make it work and make it work for filmmakers. But right now, the cap, the annual cap we have is too low. There's some other things about the incentive program that is still create a bit of a barrier, because we we don't it's not large enough to bring more than one significant project at a time here typically. And that it does have an impact on how fast we can build up to that three tier town. We're not there yet. But tell us a little bit. I mean, you did have an actual experience shooting in Saint Louis last fall, here, on Spaghetti Wars, and you had to, you had to bring bring some of your key department heads with you from Dallas, but you also employed a big size crew, 50 plus people here from Saint Louis. And tell us a little bit about that experience every time. You know, Dallas has always been a stepchild of the major markets, right? If you're from New York, LA if primarily L.A., like, you know, people come to town and they're very skeptical of your talent ability. So we know as people from Dallas, we know what that feels like because we were good enough to engage with Hollywood. But we were always look, we were always like the brother. Right? And so when you go to smaller markets, okay. And that means smaller markets specifically as in how big a production industries there. Sure. Right. When you go to these smaller markets, you always wonder what the talent level what's. Sure, that's a natural thing. But what I try to do is not to be insulting. And offputting with that, because I've been that. You felt that right. Felt that forever. Right? Right. So we'll be very respectful and understanding that. So I'll get signals. I have no idea. Never shot in Saint Louis. Been to Saint Louis that we shot here. The talent in Saint Louis is effing crazy. Wow. There is a lot of talent in Saint Louis. The camera operators are amazing. And these kids can shoot. Yeah. Come out. Call me when I'm an old man. These kids can shoot their asses off. Most of these guys, these operators in town are owner operators. They have their own rig, and they're all DPS, right? And there's, you know, Steven Greathouse mean, there's this. There is, there was. So the first day were fantastic, right? Camera was crazy. Art department crazy talented, hardworking, grip electric. These guys know their stuff? Yeah. These guys are on point. You know, there's so many talented people on set, hard working sound guys. You know, it's it's it was like a breath of fresh air to be in the market. And I was like, this is this. This town slept on. Yeah. This is a well-kept secret that there's a secret or although, selfishly, I don't want anybody to come for the work because. Right, right now I get, you know, it's. Yeah, that'll be our job is to. Well and you know, I and I think that it's so good to hear and I've heard you say that before. It's why when and our listeners to hear that experience. Because that's what I've always believed. But I don't know what that feels like to somebody coming in from out of town. And I know that the, the excitement level here for the opportunity to again and most of those people are like, you were right there also writing, directing, producing their own shorts, their own features, you know, that sort of thing. But now they're getting a chance to work on some more and more serious size productions, bigger budgets, all of those things, and work with real pros. Right. And you guys pulled off, an insane amount of production in about four days time. Which is still kind of remarkable. I remember spending time over on the set when you were here, and it was it was like a little city had dropped down in the middle of the hill Italian neighborhood here for four days and just took it over. But it was really cool to watch how, you know, I'm sure it wasn't seamless, but it kind of appeared seamless to an observer like myself who knows a little bit about it, but really doesn't know all the inner workings. Yeah, I mean, every production has bumps. We were we're moving fast. We're also getting to know people. We were like, we were Brady Bunch and the crew right from. And so, you know, the shorthands that, you know, have the shorthands of the guy you do have. Right. But I thought my Dallas crew was in love with Saint those crew. Oh, let's call them up. Yeah. You know you can get personality issues in there. That's like any game, any sport, right? Right. The overall sentiment was that everybody was calm. First of all, I'm in love with Saint Louis. I fall in love. You know, my my son's dad. Where you go? I'm going to the loo. Go to the loo and, but it's it's, it was great to me, you know, there it was for what we did. It was tough. Tour proves that. Let me tell you something. That production told me everything I need to know about St. Louis crew. That was a tough gig, right? That was a very tough gig. The way people were composed were. The problem solved. The work ethic you know, they gave of themselves to make this, you know, being the integrity that they held in the work that they did was over, over the top. And it wasn't an easy production, was one. Let me tell you something, Pete. I told you I’ve been doing this for 33 years, that was the hardest production ever done. Yeah, that was tough. And I've done some tough shoot. I, I did a feature film in 22 days and that was, that was and this was a period piece with aerial stunts. Wow. Dogs and kids. Okay. And and this I would say was tougher than those 22 days. Wow. And so you were content. You had so much condense and you had so many moving parts. Right? You had six cameras, you had the live event component to it. And for people who have maybe heard me reference Spaghetti Wars, we're very excited to you guys are getting ready to go into post. We're excited about what that looks like coming out later this year. I think people are going to be excited to see it. And that's something that is encouraging where we have other things coming to, to town as well. And there's a buzz about this. It's happening, and we're thrilled that you guys had that experience and, and look forward to to you guys coming back. Let me ask you something. You sort of shifting gears a little bit because I always find this is kind of an interesting conversation. You know, first of all, we could probably keep talking here for a couple of hours, and barely scratched the surface. So we will have to come back and do this again. But I want to I want to sort of wind up a little bit here this morning and respect your time by asking you this simple question. And I ask this of all my guests, what's on your screen? And however you answer that question is appropriate. So, you know, I say to sometimes people and they immediately pull out their phone and they think of a game they're playing or this YouTube channel, they've just found somebody else. We'll talk about the latest, you know, thing they watch on their wall at the end of the night, and it might be on Netflix, somebody else's. It's the script I'm writing. Whatever. So I'm curious, if I ask you right now, what's on your screen? On my screen right now is. A curated channel of content that I am developing. Cool. And think and directing and writing, and that that screen has a feature film about the only the second African-American, military person to win a Navy Cross for, that was that's been in Hollywood for about six years. And we've been developing it's, a project in the Saint that's started in Saint Louis about a very famous time. Yeah. There is, A story that I had about, a female MMA fighter who was victimized as a child and turned that into her art, in which she uses an art form to get out of that. She's incredible. Yeah, but she also uses martial arts mentally to stay together. And that's a story that we've actually filmed and we have in the can. So all my screen is a lot of stories that come from a lot of places that, you know, you can't is hard to look at my screen and go, well, this guy makes this. Yeah, yeah I do. I go for the great story. And sometimes it's unscripted work and sometimes it's film and sometimes it's a documentary, but it's all an adventure in the story. And lastly, I will say that on my screen is telling historical films and telling stories about humanity through documentary form. They can make impact on people's lives and change people's minds and sometimes, when needed, change policy in the country. Yeah, those are the things that, that's on my screen. Very cool. Well, you have a you have you have a busy screen. But I think that's, I think that's, that's what excitement. I mean, I when, when I've had a chance to engage with you and the team, that's the and I it is always energizing. It is busy. There's a lot going on, but there's always this sort of happy, excited energy about what's next or what's, you know, on the screen. You know, you used, we say on the drawing board, well, now it's on the screen, it's in the development side. But, well, that's very cool. Well, I'm going to, hold you to, coming back later when some of those things leave that place where you're curating and become something we can watch or hear more about. Because I think that's very exciting stuff, and I'm glad to know that you have that in the works and that you will be back in Saint Louis, before too long as we get ready to bring the first Spaghetti Wars episode to the screen itself. Hey, King, thank you so much for taking the time today. Been a blast catching up. Really appreciate it, folks. If you've enjoyed this, episode here with King Hollis, you can follow him. King, how would people get to learn more about you, connect with you? I'm on LinkedIn. Okay. And my Instagram. Just type in King Hollis and my crazy name, Instagram name will pop up. All right, all right, we'll don ho this year. So it's, So. All right, folks, you can check him out on Instagram and LinkedIn. And that will probably lead you everywhere else you need to go. Find more about King Hollis and the amazing work that he does. And if you've enjoyed this content, if you like this podcast, find us. Follow us wherever you get your audio podcasts. And if you're watching on YouTube, hit that like and subscribe button. You can see good looking people like me and King all the time, and you can always find us at TheScreenLawyer.com. Thanks a lot, everybody. King, take care. Have a great rest of the day. Thanks. Pete.