FILM IN MO: Producer Cole Payne and the Missouri Film Tax Credit #303

In this episode of The Screen Lawyer Podcast, host Pete Salsich welcomes Cole Payne, a Missouri-based film producer and co-founder of Traverse Media, who played a pivotal role in enacting Missouri’s film tax credit. Cole shares his journey from growing up in Russellville, Missouri, to studying entertainment management in Springfield, and eventually moving to Los Angeles to pursue a film career. The episode dives into his motivation for returning to Missouri, the significance of Missouri's new film tax credit, and how it's reshaping the state’s film landscape. It offers an inspiring look at how homegrown talent can thrive and give back to their roots through legislative advocacy and creative development. 

Capes Sokol, Attorneys at Law


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Transcript

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We've been talking a lot about filming in Missouri because of the Missouri film tax credit. Well, joining us on the podcast today is one of the people who is a key architect of getting the tax credit enacted, and is also a Missouri film producer. Cole Payne will join us. Stick around. Hey there. Welcome to The Screen Lawyer Podcast. I'm Pete Salsich, The Screen Lawyer. And my guest today is Cole Payne of Traverse Media, a Missouri filmmaker. Welcome, Cole. Hey, Pete. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Thanks for joining the podcast today. I'm looking forward to this conversation. You and I actually talk, fairly frequently these days. But this will be a good chance for everybody else in the audience to meet you and hear about your career. And filming in Missouri, which I think is, is at the very top of my mind a lot these days, as you know. Tell us a little bit about kind of how you got started in and you are a mid Missourian right not a Saint Louisan or Kansas Cityan or anything else. Fill us in about all that. Yeah. From Russellville, Missouri. So an 800 person town outside of Jefferson City. Ended up going to school in Springfield, which was southwest Missouri State when I went there and needed to choose a major. And entertainment management was an option. And I used to throw a bunch of field parties at my grandfather's field, so it seemed a good fit. You know, I always loved films, but. And TV, but just never thought it was a reality, of a career path. A couple of buddies from Jefferson City, Missouri, decided to move to Los Angeles. My road trip out with them stayed for a little while and was like, I got to get out here. Met a woman, English woman in a bar, actually. And she said, what do you do? Because that's sort of the LA question. I had just moved to Missouri, major in entertainment management, and she had a talent management company, and she also had recently optioned a book and attached Jennifer Lynch to adapt that book into a screenplay and to direct it. So that was really my first foray into like developing a project and going out to find finance, because we had found some development finance for Jennifer to, you know, do it. So that's and you know, and that was like an internship. She's you know, she's like show up on Monday. And so I interned for 50, 60 hours a week while working at a watch store in the mall and nights and weekends to pay the bills. Right. And then, yeah, that's that's how I ended up out there. Wow. So that's kind of a not an unusual story in a lot of ways, right? I mean, you have your version of it, but that's typically what had to be done. Right. If you you're in Missouri, you grew up, you're interested, at the time southwest now Missouri State has a great, entertainment and film program, but most of its graduates had used to have to go to LA or New York to to ply their trade. So how did you, how did you end up coming back here? And, and first of all, what anything else you did sort of out there. And then how did you get back here to start doing the work that you're doing now? Yeah. So I mean, long story short is, you know, at the talent management company, again, we had the project with Jennifer Lynch, and that was my first foray into producing, going around speaking to financiers was, other producers, things like that. And then my boss started dating her now husband, who had a series on HBO at the time that he was, co-creator of and writer of, you know, admittedly, that job was learning a lot of what not to do. And, you know, in my humble opinion, kind of got thrown in the air because, I mean, first day I was just like, do you read The Hollywood Reporter in Variety? And I didn't know what those things were, you know, you know, how to do script coverage. And I also did not know what that was. And, and at that time, because I was 2003, you know, you couldn't Google those things easily. You know, you find out what the script coverage were, you couldn't find out what gap financing was easily, online, where it's a little bit different today. So I kind of got thrown in, you know, doing everything from, you know, high level development meetings and working with talent to going to Starbucks and getting my boss coffee and everything in between. And she eventually started paying me, a little bit, you know, but the watch store job and got by. And then I eventually left and, went out on my own as a producer, just took meetings, said, hey, I'd really like to pursue producing, not looking for a handout, but that's what I'm up to now. I think it can be helpful. First meeting I got handed a script called Downloading Nancy that I ended up getting made. About four years later. I brought the bulk the equity financing to the project, and then that was also like my first time going to Canada and utilizing the Canadian incentive for having three, and an international sales agent that I had to get approval on cash from and a lender against those tax incentives and a completion bond. And it was union, you know, so I was like, you know, I did get a few movies in before that, but that was kind of like, oh, a $300,000 movie or $100,000 movie with me and my buddies kind of thing. And then thrown into that. And that director was actually Johann Rank, who directed the, Chernobyl series for HBO when he did film Spaceman with Adam Sandler on Netflix. And, Christopher Doyle was our cinematographer. So one of the best, you know, he did a lot of the Wong Kar Wai films, like 2046, and he did rabbit for fence and a lot of classic films. So I got to work with some very high end. So I did right off the bat. And from there I, I did end up joining a German finance and production company based out of Berlin. So I went over Germany, did some, did films over there, got involved a lot of international co-productions utilizing like European subsidies on top of tax incentives from different countries and then, opened up the North American office for that company where we launched. I brought on somebody to do talent management, who was another Missouri and actually friend of mine, and also distribution on a small level, mostly straight to VOD, some small theatrical. I ended up parting ways with Instinct to Film and starting Traverse Media and 2013, which is now my company. Yeah. So we kept up all those operations. I did shut down the distribution just because it was sort of the plan was low money. Using the filmmakers is sort of our, you know, marketing team working with. Because a lot of times when you sell a film, you know, you sign on the dotted line and the distributor probably doesn't want to hear from you anymore. Exactly. I mean, and my attitude was filmmakers know the films better than anybody else. You know, it could be utilized, but it wasn't really working as when DVD was dying and studios were pushing their stuff on cable, VOD and things like that. So you had to compete with big marketing budgets? Yeah. So I went out for more investment and kind of investors were interested drag their feet. I kind of said, if money's not in the bank by this time I got wrap up distribution. So I did that. But it was a good experience getting in there and knowing it. And, you know, it also kind of got me involved in and domestic sales of films as well to where I typically handle domestic sales and most of the films that I produce. And I take on some other projects from other filmmakers that kind of come to me. So I'm not pounding the pavement every day looking for films to sell. But if it comes to me and I'm sure I can be helpful, and I'm coming from the filmmaker perspective, you know, so I'm, I'm candid, like, hey, this distributor is offering money, but you'll probably never see another dime or hey, this distributors not are offering you any upfront money, but there's honest and they pay on the back end kind of thing. Yeah. So that's just an approach that I take at it that I think other filmmakers appreciate. So I ended up, you know, again, wrapping up the distribution eventually, you know, my partner on the talent management side decided to go. He wanted to go his own route and and just the best thing to so I just really focused on pare down to producing mainly and then the occasional film sales. And then during the pandemic, I just got tired of sitting in the house and moved back to. And all meetings are like this on zoom now. Anyway, I didn't even make an announcement that I was leaving. I just kind of when it got brought up organically, I'm like, yeah, I'm in Missouri now. And yeah, and you know, when I got here, I was able to get more involved and, pushing a tax incentive to get passed in the state. Yeah, that's wow. That's that's really cool. That's a, that's a long, you know, 20 plus basically almost 20 year journey. Right. Yeah. Out to LA. And then all that time out there I think it's fascinating to how many, component parts of getting a film from concept to screen that you've been involved in. And one of the things we talk about here a lot is, you know, the concept of The Screen Lawyer. Well, I'm always telling people, obviously, that there are contracts along the way. Right. And if you have a great idea, you have a great team, you have talent. But if you don't do the, you know, and I usually approach it from a legal perspective, but it's really the business, right? It's it's the business component pieces of putting a project together, which include the contracts include work for hire language and things like that, and then frequently come up around here. But it's really everything else, right? It's all those different structures and the different types of financing packages. And who has control over this and who has control over that. And, you know, things that are happening now, I think for many filmmakers, especially those that I meet with regularly who are here in Missouri, who maybe haven't done what you did, didn't go out to LA and learn all these things. And frankly, I think the way you described it, you did, you see somebody hit you with a bunch of jargon. You didn't know it. You probably had to try not to look dumb, get through the day, then figure out how to find out what that meant, and then go back and try not to maybe look a little less dumb. Day two. But that's how you do it. Yeah. These days, I think there's a lot of people that are coming up here, and hopefully what we can nurture here is and has the ability for filmmakers to grow here in the Midwest without having to take that 20 year journey somewhere else. But it has all those component parts. And so when you got back to, to Missouri and you started getting involved in the tax credit thing, as you, you know, as listeners know here, we were very excited when it finally got enacted two years ago. And, I've talked about a lot here, but we had a film tax credit, program in Missouri, that expired, back in 2013. And then it was ten years with nothing at a time at a really kind of critical ten years. Right. Because back in that ten year time, many other states started enacting tax and some tax incentives. Georgia just landed, exploded. Other things started to make the reality of a tax incentive as a almost threshold requirement to get films in your area really took off. So now we're back. Tell us kind of how you got involved in that and walks through that process a little bit. Yeah. Well, even to touch on something you said earlier about the legal and the contracts and all that stuff. I mean, I have to say, the good side of the first job that I had, my first boss did have a law degree from Oxford, so we handled a lot of contractual stuff, in-house. And she did, you know, walked me through that. And it was, it was interesting to, beyond the, the actor side of it, you know, and then to flip over and then be on the producer side of it. You I could look from both ways. And then again, I didn't go to film school, you know, entertainment management was a business major. And I did take some legal classes along with that major that qualified that, you know, not to say that I'm, you know, have your expertise by any means, but, you know, I did what I had to do to on the legal side, take care of myself and also, you know, take care of clients when they couldn't afford to bring on an attorney or something of interest. And I think that's I mean, it's important. I'm glad, you know, when we when you and I were together at the time, I'm glad that, you know, as much as you know about the contracts. Right. Because I certainly a part of what I try to do is to educate filmmakers on this. But, you know, for some, they're just never going to. That's just not their brains, not capable. So they need to find someone like you, right? Find someone or else in their team that can help translate and make sure those things happen. And then, you know, obviously when the budget appropriate production legal becomes part of the budget as well. But I never want to be the only person and understands this stuff. I'm always trying to make sure that at least somebody on the team also gets what I'm saying, because otherwise it can be really. It can be tough. Absolutely. I mean, it's just important to know everything. It's like, you know, it's for me, I don't plan on shooting a film or putting up the lights or doing the production design or recording sound. And that's how I learned, you know, like my first film, I just paid attention on set. Yes. Paid attention. That is what people are doing. When I went to Canada to do that film Downloading Nancy, as I said, that was a different level dealing with unions, tax incentives, the whole nine yards. I had a very experienced local producer and a very experienced local line producer, and I spent hours in their office just asking them questions, you know, about what was going on, just trying to learn, you know, and and that's another thing you learn, too. It's like everyone doesn't run sets like we do here in the United States. I would say that Canada is really different. It's not much different at all. But like you go to somewhere like Germany when I ended up there and doing a film, it's, you know, they run a set complete. I mean, like, what's the difference? That's really intriguing to me that you say that. I mean, just sort of like, you know, instead of a, line producer, you know, they have an Aufnahmeleiter, I believe, is what it's called. And I mean, that's not a direct translation, but there's, like, four Aufnahmeleiters in different areas. And it was just kind of like I had to bring one, know a new one in essentially and say, this is what you're doing now. And this production, just that, like the, locations department is like under the ad department, but the first ad isn't really the one pushing the day along. It's really on the director themselves to kind of like, pay attention to the schedule and just just sort of different things like, you know, they have all the they have all the same component pieces, but they may organize them differently or. Yeah. Think about how assigning roles differently. Yeah. And you have to have beer every day. Really. But on day two I was like, why is everybody upset? Like there's no beer here. I was like, It's Tuesday, you know? So we had to find some local breweries to sponsor us on the beer side. And they have an opening party of midway party and a wrap party. So maybe we could adapt that. You know, that's not so bad. Yeah. I need to go meet with a German production attorney and get over there. That sounds good. But, again, the big part of what that was is, again, not just utilizing German tax incentives, but also there's subsidies, you know, because it's like they have several subs. They have a subsidy as a country as a whole. The different regions in the country have their own subsidies. And I mean with in regards to official European co-productions and even international bilateral co-productions, together you can finance an entire film from subsidy and tax instead of money. Now, that said, you have to check a lot of cultural boxes and things like that. So it's not like a marvel film or just a regular Christmas movie. Something is going to qualify for all those incentives. And then, you know, because they have to be in certain languages and percentage of it has to be in this language or that language, and some of them don't. Yeah. So and you can only offer certain deals if you take the subsidy money. You can only offer this to your equity investors and things like that. So you really have to know all those elements kind of going on. That was a really good experience. And then, you know, being involved, getting back here, doing films again. I've done several in Canada, I've done several in different states in the United States, and again, international co-productions and doing films in Germany, where we're doing like a bilateral co-production between like South Africa, Canada and Germany, you know? And so when I got back, it just seemed like I was probably the most suited person that was willing to do this for free and open craft, our, film incentive bill. So you didn't and I now it's a little more clear, I think when you when you think about, yes, you had all this experience someone organically and then you, you did what successful people do is you chased the opportunities and got in and took advantage of those that that you got and then led that led to next stuff similar with your experience in financing and the experience of dealing with the concept of tax incentives that are provided by a governing body. Right? In a variety of different places. And how that all comes together probably did make you, uniquely suited to do this. But you did more than just help craft the bill. So walk us through now. You're. We're back here. And, you know, there have been efforts over the years, intervening ten years to try to get something to where it could be passed, and it never was successful. So how did you get involved? Start in. And you really took the the you're the primary person who drafted our legislation. Isn't that right? Yeah. I, I did the initial draft of the bill, then handed it off to their sponsors. And then obviously they have their own insight on the bill. But yeah, initial draft, which I did admittedly draft off our original bill because talking to our lobbyists, it's like you don't want to change things up too much. Yeah. So is the original bill as a template and then added in all the new stuff from there. And then once, you know, drafting it, it was really, you know, also being there to support our sponsors, at the Capitol. So to us, not only just testifying when it got in front of a committee, but doing individual meetings with legislators, being on the sidelines when the bill got on the floor because maybe a lot of people out there know it much better than me. But it's not as simple as legislator files a bill. It goes to the floor for a vote. They say yes, it goes to the other side of the, you know, to the House or Senate or whatever that happens. And the governor signs it again, it has to be assigned to a committee. It could never get assigned. Once the bill is filed, once it gets in committee, it has to get out of committee. It could never get out of committee. And then it goes to like rules and budget and all kinds of things before it even goes to the floor for a vote. And then once it's passed through either the House or the Senate on that side, it has to go do the whole same, same thing side. And then it gets on the governor's desk and the governor can either sign it can veto it, or not sign it, you know. So right. The early doesn't sign it and but doesn't veto it. I think that's sort of a passive saying, okay, enough people like this bill. Right. But I don't I'm not fully going to endorse it, but I'll let it pass kind of thing. Right. So it's a whole process. And that was a whole learning experience myself. And that's something that, that I was unfamiliar with. But yeah, I got, you know, I was involved with the tax incentives themselves. Why? And what my goal was, being a missourian was to make it appealing for Missouri as a state, because it's not going to last. Sort of like our first one didn't last. Right. And appealing for filmmakers to come to Missouri, especially when there is such a robust choice of other states that already have infrastructure and workforce and these incentives in place, like, why do you come to Missouri, that it's just getting off the ground. And it's not that our first bill didn't work like it did work, it's just that our cap was so limited at 4.5 million a year, it wasn't enough to build an industry. So that's why. Yeah. Then with the caps, we really dug our heels in to say we can't have less than $8 million for film, and we can't have less than $8 million for TV, and even that is really low. But at least with $8 million, that could sustain $1 million ish budget pictures throughout the, you know, you can have seven, eight productions. Some of them are going to be in the couple hundred thousand, some of them be over a little bit over a million. But at least it's enough to keep productions going throughout the year in Missouri. And then on the TV side, the idea is hopefully we could get one small TV show, you know, to come here and film for six months or so, you know, and we haven't really had that yet. But luckily we've had some, some shows that have come in and done some things and pilots and, you know, abs, you know, and some TV, film, TV movies. So it's been good. We've been utilizing it on that side. But as we continue to grow and, you know, and it's like we're new, we need to have the crew there. We need that right there need to be able to support a team. Yeah, I mean, I think you, you and and part of what we do is we demonstrate, you know, we're, we're a little more than a year and year and a half now. We've got our first full year of numbers. And I, you know, I think on most measures it was successful. We, we, spent, you know, over there's over 30. I shouldn't say we spent. And this is an important thing, I think. And, and just to sort of update the audience. So you and I, a couple of weeks ago, along with members of the FILM IN MO board, and I want to talk about that FILM IN MO in a second. But we were, down in Jeff City again, for a day of lobbying, meeting with, with that, our lobbyists had arranged for us to I think we had 16 or 17 meetings over the course of a day just going from office to office. Got a lot of steps in, to meet with various, representative and senators, some of whom who had been involved early and were sponsors and very supportive. Others, many of whom were maybe new, right, and don't really know it, don't know whether they should like it or dislike it. You know, when whenever you're talking about the concept of a tax credit or tax incentive, there's going to be a certain segment of the of the governing populace that says, oh, those are bad, or those are giveaways or, you know, we're in Missouri. Why would we give tax breaks to Hollywood? So there is a constant education process, right? I that was my first time doing that. And I was, you know, I was kind of exhilarated by it. I thought it was a pretty powerful experience. You made a comment so that it was. It was much easier and nicer this time with a bill that had already passed and was now law than it was back when you were when you were struggling with the team to get it passed. Do you remember any particular moment in time when you thought, this is going to make it? Well, I mean, to me, I just felt that from the beginning because it just makes so much sense is yes, there's this idea that taxpayer dollars are going to Hollywood with this incentive, and that is completely wrong. Not to say that Hollywood is not coming into Missouri. You're not going to come from Missouri, and we want them to come to Missouri and spend their money. You know, we want that in our economy. But the thing is, it is a tax credit that is not issued until actual cash money has been spent in our state, audited by a private Missouri license, CPA, and then once again audited when it's turned into the state. And it's a performance based credit. So the credit is only given out on money that is actually spent in the state. It doesn't work like a lot of our other tax credits, a lot of other tax credits are issued at the beginning of a project. This is not we get a letter saying you're eligible to get up to a certain amount of money. You can go over that amount of money, but you can get less than that amount of money or none. If you don't follow the rules and do everything you're supposed to properly. So it's like for an exchange for millions of dollars of cash being dumped into our state, we're giving them a piece of paper that says they have a lower tax liability at the end of the year. Well, the thing is, these production companies are single purpose vehicles. They don't want any tax reform. And they get the tax credit. So all they are is spending vehicles. And so they have no tax liability at the end of the year outside of any just like employment taxes and things like that, paying to the state directly through payroll or and even if it's a 1099 with the way we are set up, even if we 1099 crew members, the production with holds their Missouri employment tax and to the on their behalf. So we have a real sort of system in place to make sure Missouri gets its tax dollars in. And so at the end of the day, when this entity has this $500,000 tax credit that they can't use, they transfer that to an existing Missouri individual or business that's already generating a lot of revenue to have that sort of kind of tax liability. And we tend to transfer to that to them at a discount. So what it does is it lowers taxes for Missourians and Missouri businesses the way that credit works. And these are for already existing Missourians, Missouri businesses and that tax credit can be split up. You can give it to your ten of your friends if you want to, you know, want to help them, our family members or so this really lowers taxes for Missourians. This bill does in exchange for getting millions of dollars spent in our state that wouldn't otherwise be spent here. And as we've discussed, Pete, from mid September 2023, when this bill was enacted through the end of 2024, we had over $33 million of production spend in our state, and we only issued$12 million of tax credits. So just basic math, this program is working. And and that's why I absolutely, you know, a few weeks ago when we were at the Capitol, that's why we had very favorable numbers, because even though some of these economic the, you know, reports that the movie business gets put into and goes through the sausage grinder when it comes out, the sausage doesn't look very good. It is that basic of math. It is $3 million cash spent in our state for a $12 million piece of paper tax credit. Right. And that and and it's not the words. Yeah. And and the beneficiaries of that tax credit are Missouri citizens, Missouri businesses who are already going to write a check to Missouri. So they're essentially doing that. And they have paid, for that tax credit. Right. And that then if they, when they, when you, when the single purpose film entity transfers the tax credit to this Missouri and at a discount that Missouri is paying very close to the amount of their tax liability anyway, the state is getting that the tax reimbursement and that money that is going to the film, the film company is either helping to pay for the production, by using as a financing vehicle upfront or is simply being returned to the equity investors, which generates more success and more efforts to bring more films and do it again. And that $33 million I, you know, had this conversation with some of the other day that money is going to be spent. It's just going to be spent in Albuquerque or Nashville or somewhere in Tennessee or anywhere else. Right. It's it's it's going somewhere. It's not staying in Hollywood anymore. It's going somewhere else. And so why not bring it here? Because it's money that we weren't going to get in the state. And it creates ancillary jobs around the, around the production industry as well. All of the businesses that support IT production, right from hospitality drivers, carpenters, catering, all these different things are all Missouri businesses, right? Because in order to qualify for the tax credit, you got to spend your money in Missouri. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's there's just so much that you wouldn't even think of, you know, just like a movie takes a lot of ice, especially if they're making fake snow. Something like that. Like ice companies are getting bought out lumber. I just it's like, yeah, you got your obvious ones of hotel and food and but there's just so many things off duty. Police officers, firemen, paramedics, you know, like, I have a set medic on, on every day when we're filming, you know, we have to come out and we pay to block roads and things like that. Or if we if there's a fire, you know, fire and you're saying maybe you have the fire department out there, keep an eye on it, and we're paying them for those services. So these are our people in Missouri that are just really getting opportunities, you know, to do this sort of thing. And, you know, I had, the first time around at the Capitol at a meeting with somebody who was opposed to the bill, and they said, well, if you come to my small town and, the Boot Hill of Missouri and you offer jobs, you're going to be taking my construction grant away from my construction business. I said, that's not how this works. We will hire you and your construction to come in and build our sets. Like, I am literally doing that right now. I'm in the house that serves as our production office and my current production, and we are on a I have a functioning, big functioning farm, a thousand acres. We hired the local, the foreman of this farm who happens to be, you know, he got retired from carpentry to run this farm. So while he is doing this and still gets paid for his regular job, he also is building our set and he's bringing two other carpenters that have actually retired and to build that with him as well. And it's like, and I'm bringing in my friend that does Hvac that that's his company to set up air conditioning for us. We're in a building that doesn't have air conditioning and then while he was there, we figured out that we needed to bend metal for other, you know, things on our set, you know, to make it look the way that it needs to look and that he also does that because he does ductwork and he. Sure. So now I hired him to create props for us for our set. So there's just all these little things that you never you don't even think about. And it's, and it's sort of like you said, the money is going to be spent. And, you know, I've read a lot of several interviews out there where they're like, you know, why did you, you know, did a tax incentive have influence on bringing you here? Where they saying no. And that is just completely false, is completely untrue. Money always wins. Moving to a real degree narrative. You know, projects again, we might get a little docu series or reality that come in because of whatever reasons that doesn't have a big local spend. They their crew is 3 or 4 people, so they bounce around the United States. They're not they're not even going to be here long enough where it doesn't even make sense for them to apply for the tax incentive. It's like, so we may get those things without an incentive. You may get, again, some just people that live here and maybe get on a case run that gets. Yeah, I mean, for the last ten years things got done right. There's a but but this is a game changer and what it brings I have conversations right now with a couple of different projects, and they are choosing what state to go to. And ultimately, all things being equal, the script doesn't require any particular location. It's got a look and feel. But Missouri can look and feel like almost any place in the world, frankly. We have all this other infrastructure support. It's where's the money available? What makes the most sense economically? Because the chances of the film being generate a successful return by generating a big enough audience, that's always a risk. So anything the production could do to reduce the budget, reduce the risk, you know, there's the tax incentive does a huge thing for it. I want to I want to focus real quickly. First of all, thanks for taking the time. I know you actually are on set in the middle of something getting started, so I appreciate yeah, when people walking in the background. That's crew. I know this is that's that's this is real. So we appreciate that. But I wanted to focus on two things real quick. One, just a quick mention about the FILM IN MO board. Obviously this is a big this is intend to be a sales pitch. Yeah. But tell us about the FILM IN MO board and how if people are in, you don't even have to be in Missouri. But if you are here and you're interested in supporting the film industry, what is this board do and how can they help? Absolutely. So yeah, when I got back in Missouri, feet on the ground, I got involved, with a nonprofit called FILM IN MO. So please, if you're interested in this at all, go to filminmo.com and check out this organization. I mentioned we have lobbyists that help support our bill. Those lobbyists are paid for through the membership of this nonprofit organization, FILM IN MO. So if you're interested in this industry in any capacity, whether you're working or just like the idea of having film and TV in the state, please join up. Because we do not have these things without this organization and for lobbyists and paying for this bill. And a lot of people may say the bill's already passed, why do we still need lobbyists? And it's because it's the same reason the bill faded out the first time, right? It's was working. It just lost its shimmer because nobody was down at the Capitol in these people's ears. When certain legislators turned down and new legislators came in. We're completely unaware that we even had a film tax incentive. So, like what we were doing the other day, as you mentioned, we were talking to a lot of first timers and educating them on the bill, you know, and and it was an overwhelming positive response that I'd never seen before at the Capitol. And I do think because it's just that basic math, $33 million cashed in for $12 million tax credit out just makes sense for our state. And the thing is, it's not just one area of our state. It's the one film tax in front of bill that can equalize the state from Saint Louis to my town. A we're in Westphalian, Missouri right now. We're actually we're in Falk. We're in outside of Westphalia or Falk. There's like five houses in a church and some farms and us. And so we are dumping we are going to dump millions of dollars and then this community in a two month period of time, other businesses do not. There isn't any other business. And the thing is, sure, we're going to end after two months, you know, after two, two and a half months and we're going to go away. But other productions are going to come in and do it somewhere else in the state. So there's no other incentive program in Missouri that will do that. Like it's awesome that GM came here and built a plant and got a tax incentive. And those 50, 60, maybe even 100 some people that have jobs, that's amazing. I love that that happened in that tax credit that Missouri gave them enabled them to do it. But it benefits that area. And those people that are working on it's where this it's all over the state. It's people were afraid it was only going to be Saint Louis, Kansas City. It's the big cities, it's the small cities and everything in between. And we've crafted the bill to incentivize people to go to school and blighted areas that may not be getting a lot of economic injection. Right, otherwise. And, and, you know, and to hire, veterans that are based in Missouri and to, you know, promote Missouri ends up to higher positions or give them their first chance on films like that. We really crafted a pro Missouri bill. And this in my humble opinion, yes, it's not perfect, but we did the best we could to get through it. And that's another thing. People don't really understand the process. They think, oh, well, tell the sponsor of the bill it needs to change to this or to that. Once it's in their hands, it's out of my hands, you know? And then it's just like you can tell them, we can inform people, but it's like, I think we wrote the best bill that we could get passed at the time, and we're learning from it now. That is also why it's important to keep the lobbyist down. So we change it and we can make it better, and we can show these people that it's working and they don't forget about us. So it's like what we do as a nonprofit. And again, none of nobody's getting paid for many of this because we're spending a lot of time just making sure that our main goal is to make sure those lobbyists get paid, and that can tell us when to come down to the Capitol and trying to talk, and who's against us and who's for us, and what we need to do, because they're an invaluable guide, you know? Yeah. You know, it's like a lot of people also have the idea, well, I should just be able to talk to my representative and tell them what I want and that's it. That is. Yes, I agree that that's the way that should be. But the reality is, the reality is you need someone to guide you through the process. You need someone to set up the meetings. You need someone who can talk in your behalf when you're not there. All of those things. So folks, FILM IN MO, very easy to find. Great organization. Full disclosure, I'm on the board as well. And, if you're interested in supporting film in Missouri, that's the best way to start, among everything else you want to do. But that's really key. Last thing, call. I want to ask you a question that I always ask my guests here, as The Screen Lawyer. And the question is what's on your screen? And I answer that I'll set this up a little bit because, you know, right now, obviously something on your screen might be the film you're working on or something on your laptop. It might be the thing on your phone that keeps you distracted. It may be the thing on the wall that you watch when you just need to turn your brain. So what's on your screen? So what am I looking at when, I mean, when I've been looking at a lot is, this particular movie is called The Mortuary Assistant. So horror film, if you can't tell by the title, but it's based on a video game of the same name. So cool to show people what this production is in a short amount of time. I've been sharing that game trailer a lot on YouTube. You can find and there's a lot of videos for the game on YouTube. The mortuary assistant. So recently that is what has been on my screen. But last night, when I tried to take my mind off this production and not think about it so I could follow up, fall asleep, I'm, watching the latest, season of The Righteous Gemstones. Nice. Cole, this has been great, man. Thanks for taking the time, spending it with us. I think your insights about the the role of the producer, how all of that works work was really cool. And then translating that, really, in some ways, what you end up doing, I think is. And I felt this when we were together last week, it is we are translating in a what is largely a manufacturing industry to legislators and others who may not realize how beneficial it is for them. And I think you do it as well as anybody that I know, and I appreciate you taking the time to join us. Absolutely. Pete, I really appreciate you having me. And I would just say as far as, like to touch on something earlier just to kind of hopefully everybody doesn't have to go through the 20 year going to play in Germany or whatever. I would just say people like, if you get an opportunity on a movie and you want to take it, you know, figure it out, do it, pay attention, learn, work hard as an organization, FILM IN MO. We're going to start offering more training programs. We're having our first one, this weekend, you know, and we plan on doing more in different areas of production. And, so, you know, I really appreciate you having me here and just appreciate the support of your viewers and, getting this going in Missouri and and keeping it great. Call. Thank you. Folks, if you've enjoyed this conversation, or any episodes of The Screen Lawyer Podcast, be sure to find this and follow us wherever you get your audio podcasts. And if you're watching our YouTube channel, be sure and hit that like and subscribe button so you'll always be updated with whenever we have new content. And you can always find anything about what we do at TheScreenLawyer.com. Thanks again. Cool. Take care. Bye. Thank you Pete.