Indie Filmmaking: From Theaters to Amazon and Tubi #215

In this episode of The Screen Lawyer Podcast, host Pete Salsich interviews Saint Louis filmmaker Bruce Carlton Cunningham Jr., who shares his journey from actor to independent filmmaker. Cunningham discusses the challenges of wearing multiple hats in low-budget productions, the importance of marketing, and the complexities of film distribution. He highlights his experiences with his film Un-Resolved, from production to its local theatrical release, and delves into the trial-and-error process of using social media platforms like Instagram and TikTok for film promotion. 

Original Theme Song composed by Brent Johnson of Coolfire Studios.
Podcast sponsored by Capes Sokol.

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Transcript

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So one of the biggest challenges for an independent filmmaker is not only making the film. That's tough enough, but it's getting it distributed, getting it on to a screen. That world is rapidly changing. And joining me on the podcast today is a Saint Louis filmmaker, Bruce Carlton Cunningham Jr. Welcome, Bruce. How you doing? Good. I'm glad you're going to be with us because you're going to help us figure a little bit about this world of distribution. Stick around. Hey, there. Welcome to The Screen Lawyer Podcast. I'm Pete Salsich, The Screen Lawyer. And joining me today is Saint Louis filmmaker Bruce Carlton Cunningham Jr. Hello, Bruce. How are you doing? Good, good. Welcome to the podcast. Glad you're here. Glad to be here. It's, It's going to be. I'm really interested in talking to you and to lay a little bit of the foundation. So, Bruce, you've been a filmmaker for more than 20 years in Saint Louis. Is that right? That's correct. And tell us a little bit about kind of how you got started and where you are these days in your career. you know, back in, I was a couch potato back in the 80s watching a lot of the 80s films. like I said previously, you know, two of my favorite films got me into filmmaking. So, it's, it first started off as acting. I want to be an actor. And then later I wanted to create those worlds that I seen in these movies. So that's basically how I got started. And so, you know, taking acting classes in high school and actually going to college and majoring in, film and video production and with the minor theater to help further that career along. Got it. And so you did did you do most of your work early on as an actor? starting off as an actor? When I got to college, I was more behind the scenes. You know, we had to make our own projects out on film projects. So I ended up mostly producing it. And then after college was doing mostly, both producing and acting in the latter church productions. I was in theatrical and, you know, a lot of shorts that I did. Got it. And then after that period, I started getting into more acting or acting, get in the late and just, starting to produce my own films. And so I and I think that's a path, you know, a lot of people that I talk to in the production world, you really are, you know, you hear the phrase multi-hyphenate writer, producer, director, actor, you, when you're sort of putting these things together, you've got a vision. And sometimes you have to play or you have to do multiple roles, right? Not just play an actor, but maybe do the writing, assemble the team, find the locations, all of that aspects. Get the food right? Exactly. Get the food, take continuity pictures. My, yeah, yeah. starting off, especially in the indies unless you have rich uncle, you come by a lot of money or Hollywood backing you. you will be doing everything. Yeah. No, that's true. That's. And I you you said about the food, if the if you don't feed the crew, they will not show up the next day, will they? And, cast and crew better feed them. Yeah. Well and so and I guess in that process, you, you, you really develop a feel for, how to build a budget, right? You know, you have to put together all of these things. How, how how many shoot days you have, what's your post-production look like? All of those different aspects. How much you're going to have to pay your crew and your cast. a lot of that business side of filmmaking. most definitely. You know, you when you have to create that budget, you know, making sure all on line items are there, right? And seeing what you can actually come up with and what you can’t come up with and then how you going to proceed forward with what you don’t have. Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things I, you know, and you make a good point because yeah, if you if you had that rich uncle or aunt or the Hollywood production, you know, budget behind you, then. Sure. But if you don't, you really have to sometimes make some hard choices about what you can do with the budget that you do have. When I did Un-Resolved, starting off it was very unorthodox. because, you know, we have a lot of money and I had to do a crowdfunding campaign. Yeah. Tell us about that. Let's, let's before we get into the process, first tell us about Un-Resolved what is the story there because that's now and people can can go watch that right now. Correct. Right right right right right. You can watch it on Tubi or you can watch it on Amazon, right? Yeah. Know two platforms. Tell us about the movie. basically about a guy who's, just being released from prison who's trying to make up the lost time with his youngest daughter, who's terminally ill, reconnect with his oldest daughter, who's befriending the enemy from his past. Did you did you write? Are you the writer? Sole. Writer. Yeah. Sole writer and director. Yeah. And producer. I was many hats. Yeah. And you're the lead actor in the film, correct? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. That's wild. So. So what was that like? How long did it take you to, from beginning to end? To get it from when you started to getting it onto a screen? Which screen you talking about? Theater screen or any. I know. And that's. You know what? That's a really good question. I'm glad you asked that, because one of the things that we focus on here a lot on The Screen Lawyer Podcast is this idea that, you know, screens are everywhere, right? And so you can watch it, you know, used to be if you wanted to go to a movie, you pretty much had to go to a theater or maybe wait for it to show up on late night TV. Right? And then we got into blockbuster, and you can go buy videos, and now it's streaming platforms and everything. You can watch it on your phone, but it's still got to get from that point where it's just on, you know, your screens while you're editing, to the point where other people can watch it on their screen. So when I say get it on to the screen, that's what I mean. Any place that somebody else can go, watch it. Okay, so, I guess when I finish, then after the film festival route, decide to, you know, do a theatrical run here in Saint Louis. Okay. I didn't have the means to do, nationwide. The. And they've acquired a lot of marketing capital, and which is one of the things I learned in arranging the budget, you know, part of their budget, you need a marketing, you, percentage a big percent into the more, the money you raised should go towards marketing. Didn’t know that, right? But, so all I can afford was do right here in Saint Louis. And I got into two theaters, the gallery and MX Theater. how was that process? Did you did you have to, like, did you pay the theaters or did they pay you? What? Tell us about that process of getting your film into the two film theaters here in Saint Louis. Yeah. So first you have to talk to them because it's not like the normal. I want to rent a theater out and have people pay for tickets to come in for one night. It's not, I am Actually, I have I didn't know the words at the time, but I was actually, distributing it to your theaters for public release. And people just like the studio film that you all have, I want my movie to be open, and people can pay a ticket and come watch it. I specify. Right, because everybody will give me a rate. So how to rent it? And one night up, like, not. That's not what I want. Right. Yeah. And so I had to spell that out. And then when I spelled it out oh okay. This is what we this is the deal. This is how we do it and you pay. I forgot the term, but you pay, sort of like a deposit, right? and then depending on how much you make from the ticket sales. Right. So you get, you know, and you know, you get it back. And then we split that. They we split the profit with the theater 50/50. Okay. So it's like a retainer fee. Got it. That makes sense. Okay. And so how long were that. How long was the film in in those two theaters. So one week at the Galleria, two weeks at the MX. Okay. And that and that's really all you need to be considered a theatrical release, right? Right, right. So long as you have that and so then what was the next step after that? The next step after that was now was time to, you know, release it to streaming. And so I had to, at that point, I was looking to see who's who would be a good fit for it as a distributor. Right. Because the networks, you know, me and indies were nobodies and not saying we're nobodies, but we don't know you. for sure. So, yeah, the network is not talking to you. If they, you know, we don't know you. You have to go to somebody we have a relationship with. Right. So basically, unless you have a Denzel Washington in your film. right. Angela Basset, or Brad Pitt and then you go, oh, okay. Right. But most they want you to go to a distributor. So as an indie filmmaker fan and a distributor that's trustworthy because I'm sure you heard horror stories of how, there are a lot of predatory distributors out there. Yeah. And so, even when I was going to the film festival route and the actor were out there doing a lot of research about distribution, and, 2023, 2024, because, you know, the industry has changed, right? Change before Covid, it changed during Covid. And even now, as we speak, it is continuing to change. Very much. So yeah, absolutely. And so and you're right about the the you know, it's good word predatory distributors. You know they just because they pop up and there's some filmmakers that you know you don't really know any better. And somebody says oh I you know, I'm a distributor, I can make you an offer. And you sign, you end up signing some exclusive relationship with them, and then they don't do the work or they don't, you know, they're not properly accounting for where it shows or, you know, you're just one of basically they're taking money from you upfront and that's it would do any work for you. So you you didn't did you find a distributor that you trusted or did you decide you ult found a distributor who did a lot of research. I had to go because, starting off, I had to, you know, make sure that, you know, my, you know, chain of custody was right. Exactly. Yeah. Intact. So making sure I had our rights even before the film festival, making sure I had all that, you know, releases and whatnot. Yeah. because these days, you got to have this stuff. Yeah. I mean, and that's and that's where we come in a lot of times. I mean, I've had situations where you first, you know, independent filmmaker, you know, has made a film, you know, a number of years earlier and finally has the opportunity maybe to get that first distribution agreement, and then they get that deal and, you know, the exhibit B or C or whatever at the end is all the things that you need to provide them. So all of your contracts, all of your releases, all that stuff, and if they didn't get them at the time, it can be it can literally kill the project. So good for you for having all those things. Yeah. That's good. I will say one of you clear this. and then you told the story about the guy who came in, and he he had to go back and. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's sad because time went past. But you had all these. I had to do the same thing because, okay, I didn't I didn't know what I didn't know. And some people I so I had to go back you know praying that you know we still would be you know relationships still cool. Right. I got a long story short, I got everything signed. So, Good, good. Well. And that you must not have been a complete, impossible person to work with because he didn't walk away from you and say, no, forget it. So that's good. so yeah, like when you, you said when you're in that producer role, you know, you said before you got to make sure that you've got food for the crew and the cast and everything, but you also have to make sure everybody has signed their contracts. Right. And everybody has all of those different steps and releases or locations or music licensing, whatever it is that is in that final, that final cut. So you you got a distributor and then how did you get into the streaming process? How did you did you go to Tubi first or how did that happen? it was basically with the, the distributor, the one I, met with. they basically they basically would have told us, you know, there's no guarantee you won't get on certain platforms, but they gave you a list of platforms that they do have a lot of the content on. And so, when my deal, it was like, you know, we got to shoot it out there with the two. The top two were, Amazon Prime and Tubi. Okay. And so and so that's how we got that. And so that's one of, two of the most popular ones out there aside from Netflix, Hulu and other ones. But. Right, a lot of indie products, for a lot of indie projects, those, pop popular. And so, that's how I got but the distributor had the relationship with those streaming products, so. So did you. and by the way, I should have asked you, what's the name of the distributor that you went with? indie rights. Indie rights? Okay. And you've had a good relationship with them? so far, so good. I heard a lot of good, stories. You know, I reached out to other filmmakers who, they did business with and, you know, nine times out of ten, the the word was, you know, two thumbs up. So I kind of went with them. So because, I had a few distributors on my list, so, but, you know, we talked and I had to, you know, according to the research, I had to make sure everything was matching. And then you do not match. And then, you know. Right. No, thanks. So because this is like, you know, a long term deal, based off of what I've heard and what what I've heard other filmmakers experience, I didn't want that for myself in this project. Right, right. No. That's good. I mean, if if you found somebody, like you said, doing your research, that's very important. and, you know, not every you might, you your criteria might have been different than somebody else's. Right. But whatever whatever is necessary or important for you, it is a really important part of that process because it can kind of feel like speed dating a little bit. Right? You get a bunch, you say, oh, no, I can do it, I can do it. And so you got to get comfortable because it is a relationship. You know, you are you are counting on them to do their piece to get your film out there and then to properly account to you for the proceeds that you're supposed to get. So how long has the film been on. did you, did it go on Tubi first or to go to, Tubi and Amazon at the same time. How did that work. it, it was released and, and that's the tricky part because once you know, the distributor gives the networks your content, they put it, you know, whenever they, whenever they like. And so, I've heard people going up immediately. Are people going up later on depending on the distributor. My went up on Tubi first, then a month later, it went on Amazon. Okay. So, so I had to roll with the punches. And that was back in February. Okay, seven months now. And how does it can you do you can you kind of explain how the Tubi process works, like how how did the revenues flow to you? Because I heard, you know, and you and I met a couple times. You, like you said you came to one of the masterclasses we put on and kind of have, you know, gotten to know each other a little bit about that. But then your name came up in a conversation I had not too long ago, with Emmett Williams, who was a guest here on the podcast, with Cinema Saint Louis. And he was talking about how you have used social media so powerfully to drive people to the film. And so, so tell us a little bit about that process and how it works with Tubi. with Tubi two is more it's, you know, it's AVOD advertising Video On Demand. So it's free to the, subscribers or anybody to watch. You don't have to pay a fee. Right. But you're watching commercials or ads when you watch the program. And so, for the producer, you want people to watch a movie because businesses are have a marketing team that are advertising. Right. That's running commercials within your movie or paying to to pay those guys. Okay. And it's running commercials in a movie. So it, their content in your movie, so you get a fee for that, of course, is split between you and Tubi, You, Tubi and the director, I mean, the distributor. If we, if we want to be clear about it. But the more people, basically, the more people that watch your film, the more commercials that's going to be ran in your film, and that's the better, because then there is impressions. So you pay it off, which is interesting. Okay. And so and use of the the AVOD , advertising video on demand. And that's, that's another thing about you know, for filmmakers who are learning the world of distribution, how many different, you know, categories there are and AVOD different is an interesting one because it's a, it's a revenue split, right? Based on the advertisers. And if you have more impressions, you basically it costs the advertisers more to be on your film, but they're willing to do it because more people are coming in seeing their commercials. Right, right. And so and it's, it's, popularity of film. So you'll see the most popular, because they're looking at everything. Sure. You know, how popular how often somebody watches your content. And so, that's, you know, basically how that works. And of course, you have the other platforms, which Netflix was a subscription base, right. And, Amazon Prime, the so to speak, that's, subscription base and that, that doesn't work. that's more like if you want to rent or buy them. Right, right. Yeah. I noticed there are no commercials. Right. And so people have the option, they can watch it on Tubi and then for free. But then you are watching some commercials, or you can rent it for 399 or 499 on Amazon, and then you watch it without commercials. So when you are doing the, so when you're, when you're trying to drive people to Tubi, did you have a process that you went through like with, with daily social media post, did you use, TikTok or Instagram or Twitter? How did you do that? Tell us through all of all of it. Because now here's this world that you know, you like a fish out of water because, in in a distribution deal today for indie filmmakers, if a deal, the distributor is not going to do the marketing for it. That's right. Okay. All right. If they do, then, you know, the percentage will be different. But for my research, it was told that don't trust the distributor. Do the marketing for you because they know that. And that's how a lot of filmmakers were, I guess getting played out of their money. Sure. As they signed the deal, the distributor said they were going to do marketing. And they just did one Facebook post. And so and we was not marketing, but they charged all this money. And so one is trying to recoup the money. They recoup the marketing fees first. So a good distributor now and let you know upfront marketing is totally the responsibility of the, producer. So now I have to do this marketing and it's like, okay, well what marketing strategy should do are utilize, you know, a good thing we have Facebook, we have Instagram, we have TikTok, YouTube, Twitter. And so it's like, did you set up a did you set up an account like a film account, like, Un-Resolved had its own account on each of these platforms, or was it all you personally or little? Both. Yeah, both that I got my own account on these platforms, and I got an Un-Resolved, account on Facebook. Instagram? mainly, because the majority of people are there around. TikTok works a little differently. And you do have an issue. Slow down to realize and tick. TikTok is more expensive, but these platforms Facebook, these social media platforms is, pay to play because you can have 5000 followers, but you make a post. Your post is not going to 5000 followers. It might initially go to 90. and then if people like, like comment on it, they will go to, you know, 150, 200 and whatnot, but it's not going all 5000. So you got to keep pace and you have to keep like, I mean, it's your daily job, right? You got to do your post, you got to come up with something. So it's not the same thing over and over again. Right. And then you got to people comment. You got to interact with those comments. And it's a challenge I know I do it sometimes well and sometimes I'm horrible at it. So I get it's not easy because you see other people that, you know, create content and they have tens of thousands of followers on, thousands. The file was kind of like, how do I get these numbers? And you looking at the content, see how they created and whatnot. And it's just like, you know, it leaves you scratching your head and it's like. And then if we talking about movie user social media to promote your movie, it's a pay to play, right? So, yeah. So did you, did you sometimes you have to like, pay to boost your posts and things like that, or, allow ads on your, on your social media platform. How I, I guess it's a, it's a little bit different for each platform. it's it's, it's, it's pay to play. So you won't you want reach, you got to pay for reach. And so like I said, that's where it comes in. If you got that rich uncle when you read, you know, or you got Hollywood backing you up, then the filmmaker doesn't have money because you, you finish making the film. Right? And so now the art side is done. You dive into the business, and we I learned late in the game you needed a marketing budget, so I had to come up with more money to market. Right. The film when it was in the theaters, I had the marketing on social media to drive people to the theaters. Now it's on streaming. Even now, I'm spending money marketing it on these different social media platforms. TikTok is very expensive to market on. so, you know, it's like $50 a day, no less than $50 a day to market on TikTok. Instagram and Facebook. You know, you can they don't have any limitations on the budget. So you can pretty much. But, if you want reach, you have to pay for that reach. Right. And then you have to pay over a long time. So it works differently when your movie saves you movies on Tubi it works differently. There is no but versus, Hollywood when they have a movie release and when they have a movie coming up, they have the marketing budget to right drop everything in the first several weeks. Right? Right. And push it, push it. Right. Indie filmmakers, we don't have that luxury, you know, so the marketing has to be spread out over months and months and months. And so you create your content and you put it out there. But then there's one thing that you pay to push it all out. And then you have to learn attention span. You know, who's going to watch a two minute trailer, right? In this day and age, nobody watches two minute videos unless you’re Will Smith. Right? Yeah. Or some some celebrity. Right. Nobody's going to watch it, so you have to cut it down. So right now I'm running a ten second trailer. Okay. Because if you look at you look at the analytics. The viewership goes down after 10s. Yeah yeah yeah. That's that's the time it takes for you to just pause while you're scrolling. You haven't clicked on it yet, but you're I stopped the the thumb stop scrolling down. You now watch a little bit. You get ten 15 seconds and then maybe that's it. But you're right. That's so you got to be able to capture their interest in that short period of time to where they'll click through and get more info. Yeah, because it's trial and error. Because first I put the, you know, the two minute trailer out there. And you look at the analytics one, nobody watching at the, at the ten, 16, 15 seconds it goes down. But that's Instagram and that's Facebook. TikTok is a totally different thing. TikTok is longer form content. TikTok is more a younger audience. So now you create your whatever content you create for the different platform, right. So what you may run on YouTube, Instagram and Facebook may be different from the type of, trailer you put on TikTok. Right? Right. Yeah. So yeah. And that's and it's interesting you say that because, you know, obviously, there are there are businesses and, you know, creative teams that all they do is manage social media marketing for brands, for people, for projects or whatever. But they cost money and they should. Right? If they if they know what they're doing and they're staying current with how the algorithms are working or where the trends are, or how the revenue share agreements are changing. but if you but again, back to your point about being the independent filmmaker, if you don't have that budget to pay them, it's one of the things you gotta learn, right? It's part of your process. do you have any idea, like do you spend, typically a certain amount every single day that you're doing that or how how is that work? let's put it this way. Hundreds to thousands of dollars a month. Okay? Trying to trying to advertise. Got it. And that's just the fraction of the population, right? Right, right, right. Yeah. For a fraction of the population. So this where it comes where this is the business side of filmmaking. This is where it's important to have, somebody well known in your film. Sure. Yeah. Just because, you know, and, you know, I, you know, I was doing film, but, you know, these certain business things I didn't know about, I, I knew I could make a film. Right. But the business side of it, I didn't know. Now I know, and now I understand why. Because that's leverage. That's leverage. And so you have who in your film? Oh cool. You know they well known? Yeah. And so, two influencers, influencers two will help boost your ratings, your algorithm. So yeah, you know, your viewership and so but if you all you had was a good story and good quality. It's, it's an uphill battle. Yeah. Well, you know, so you it's, it's a lot of grassroots. It's a lot of legwork. It's a lot of money and time involved in, promoting your project to create awareness because, just because it's on Tubi don't mean nobody knowing, they're going to watch. Well, yeah. I mean, it's like it's like, you know, I would when I'm searching for something to watch, you know, something new, at the end of the day, and I'm scrolling through and I think to myself, okay, I, you know, I pay for these different channels, and I've got all this stuff in streaming and it's all there, but I can't. How come I can't find anything? Because what I'm getting, what's getting shown to me is my choices is a tiny fraction. If I don't know how to search, if I don't know how to, you know, dig down, I may never even get presented an opportunity to watch a film like Un-Resolved or something like that, unless I've already sort of self-selected into a certain area. So if I had seen it though, on social media and made a note of it. okay. Wait a second. Now, what's that movie I saw? Oh, all right, now I'm going to go find it. So I guess you're right. You got to. You got to drive those eyeballs. Yeah. Gotta drive the eyeballs because, if you don't promote, nobody's gonna watch. Right. And that's when it comes down to. So it's a lot like I say, it's a lot of legwork and it’s a lot of, research, finding out what works. What doesn't work, right when you, get the momentum, you know, go with that flow. And, when it's all over, you know, we got to switch up because, like I said, this is seven month, that, in, in advertising and promoting that it's out there. And so, to constantly remind myself this is not a Hollywood film. This is the indies. This is how we have to operate in. And. Right. And so the filmmakers, you know, when you work with other filmmakers, there's the hands that are content up there and it's doing well, you know, they will share, you know, their secrets of the trade and, how to continue to get people to watch because, switch it up. So it's a different game. It's a different. And the independent, is a different, it's a different beast. Oh, very much so. Very much so. So, you know, you've talked about a couple things about obviously with Un-Resolved and some of the things that you learned. So what's next for you? Are you do you have a new project that you're working on or where you're, you're going to get that budget upfront or you're going to get that marketing money? What's next on your on your agenda? Oh, yeah. Well, I want start writing because right now this is promotions. filmmaking. I think the last step in the whole filmmaking process is the marketing, the promotion and getting people to watch because it's out there. And so I would like to step off and start writing, and that's my goal in the next several months, because I want to go into production again and then go into production with this newfound knowledge. Yeah, yeah. So so do you think do you think in that so that next time the things that you've learned this time when you go into writing. because I've heard other filmmakers talk about how, you know, the process of, okay, I got a I got an idea, I this is the movie I want to make. Here's the story. There's the the world I want to create, etc., etc. and then you do it all right, but you don't really know if there's actually going to be an audience for that film until you've made it and you put it out there. But I, I've heard from other filmmakers that have maybe gone that route, and then they with the next project, they do a little more research upfront, like what might a distribution be for if I had a script like this, one of the freight, you know, terms, that comes up a lot as people talk about, well, you know, horror movies, there's a there's a built in audience for horror films, you know, and so if I have horror as a genre or whatever it might be, then I kind of know where my distribution's likely to be or kind of my budget. And then I work around that. Do you do you think you would start taking into consideration the whole distribution model at the early creative rate? You know, like, would you have made a different movie, for example, if you knew about the distribution, maybe that's a better way to ask it. no. I'm I create my stories. I think Quentin Tarantino said is I create my story for me and everybody else just along for the ride. Yeah. so since I, I want to tell my story and but it's also with that and that's the art side, but then I. Oh, no one is the business. you have to know your audience. And so one piece of advice I got was to, create a brand. And so when you create your brand, everybody will follow you. So regardless, one movie you do. Bruce did this movie. Okay, okay. All right, Bruce, do one another. Okay. I'll watch that one say yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, create a brand and then be personally when it comes to writing a script and then thinking about distribution, what you should do, think about distribution beforehand. But should there be impact on your script? I say yes and no because might need a celebrity from a business standpoint to get your your film that boost one of these roles or two of these roles have to be played by somebody. Well, known. right. Right. And so that's one thing Two, You got to distribution. Distributors need content. Yeah. And in business. Yeah. So, if you have somebody that's in your film that's well known, got a good script, got good quality. Yeah. You know sir. Yeah. They, they depending on a distributor a lot of them differently. And I think advice is, depending on the film, you may choose a distributor that’s well known, that's right. You push it in that area, right. That that might be some good advice. for my type of film and my audience, There's a platform for. Yeah, yeah. So that's, that's. And like you said, you got to make your movie, right? I mean, at the end of the day, you are going to put it out. It is your work. It's you got to believe it. You got to stand by it. You got to, as you said, I do it for myself. that's probably you probably can never change that about it. Right. That's your core basic way you do it. Well. Well, first of all, Bruce, let me say thanks so much for taking some time, to visit today. This is very cool. I it's I'm I'm always trying to learn more about the business piece is that I don't know that much in I know what the contracts look like. Right. And I've been doing that work for a long time. But this next, you know, place for the producer to, to find, you know, the way to get that screen, the film on screen. I think it's really fascinating. So thanks for for taking some time. I want to ask you one more question. and I do this all the time with guests here. and I want to I'm just going to ask you, like, what's on your screen when you're when you're ready to look at other work, whether it's your phone or on the wall or in the theater or whatever, what's on your screen? What are you watching right now? Game of Thrones. All right. Are you watching the original one? Are you watching House of Dragons House and Dragons? the season's done so right. Game of Thrones. Right. So I, I just finished, I just finished House of Dragons. What did you think? I sort of was, like waiting for the war to start. And I feel like, you know, a little bit of the people that are seeing the whole season two was really just the prequel for season three. I don't know. What do you think about that? yeah. Yes or no? Episode four, when season two was like, you know, the last season they could at least gave us a fight scene, you know? Right? Yeah. They at least gave us a fight scene. But, I think, they got the audience hooked. Yeah. No, it's true. I mean, it's cool. Yeah. And I have, one of my daughters lives out of town, and she's a big fan, so I stayed current with it this season because she needed to be able to talk to me about it on Monday or Tuesday. And if I hadn't watched it on Sunday, I was in trouble. I was going to hear about it all week long until I had watched it. So we can stay current, but I think it does that. It, in a good show like that, draws you in. That's very cool. But that's an example of a show that, you know, I just did the research, the numbers you know, Game of Thrones was 15 million per episode. Yeah. I was just going to ask you, so do you have any dragons? You don't have any dragons in your budget for your next film? no. No, I, I would like, you know, that's something we can that's something we can, like, root for. And when whenever you get to the point where you've got dragons in your movie, I want you to come back and tell us about the process of of working with dragons. That'd be very cool. We'll do. Hey, Bruce, thanks a ton for being on here. so people can watch Un-Resolved now on Tubi, right. With, they would want to watch it with commercials. It's free. They can also watch it on Amazon Prime Video. Right. So if they've got their fire stick or they just watch on their laptop or their phone, and the movie is Un-Resolved and is there there's a hyphen after the UN, correct. Yeah. UN dash was on dash or un. Okay, cool. All right. Well, everybody go check out Un-Resolved. Bruce Carlton Cunningham Jr. writer, director, producer, actor, star, impresario, of that film and many more. it's been a pleasure, folks. If you've enjoyed this, this episode, find us and follow us wherever you get your audio podcast. We're on all of the platforms, and you can also, watch us on YouTube. And if you're on the YouTube channel watching us now, hit that like and subscribe button. Go check out Un-Resolved. Follow all of Bruce's, and Un-Resolved accounts on the various, social media platforms, and you can always find us at The Screen Lawyer.com and you'll get great. Lots of great content there. Bruce, thanks again for joining us. Hope to catch up soon. All right. Thank you. You back. Take care.