St. Louis Filmmakers Showcase - Live Broadcast #213

On Wednesday, July 24th, Pete Salsich hosted a live recording of The Screen Lawyer podcast in partnership with Cinema St. Louis' 2024 Filmmakers Showcase. 

The program focused on the ever-evolving world of independent film distribution. Pete engaged a panel of industry experts, including Andrea Sporcic-Klund (Missouri Film Commissioner, Director of the Missouri Film Office), Bryan Krueger (CPA, Partner at SFW Partners), and Jessica Ambuehl (Independent film producer, director, actor), in a lively discussion on the new Missouri Film Tax Credit. 

Original Theme Song composed by Brent Johnson of Coolfire Studios.
Podcast sponsored by Capes Sokol.

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Transcript

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It's been about nine months since the motion media tax credit in the state of Missouri came on board, and since that time, we've had a tremendous amount of activity with films getting fully produced and finished and others just getting started. Lots of questions about how it all works and the importance of the role of the producer. Today we're recording this episode live, actually in the In our World headquarters here at Cape Sokol and I have three guests who are going to teach a whole lot about this program. Stick around. Hi there. Welcome to The Screen Lawyer Podcast. I'm Pete Salsich, The Screen Lawyer. And today on the podcast episode. I'm very excited because we're going to do something a little bit different. We're not in a normal studio. We are actually in the Work Cafe seminar room here at Cape Circle, because I have three guests who are joining me today to talk about the Missouri motion media Film Tax Credit, Missouri Motion Media tax Credit. I you know, it's one of those words that we just call it the tax credit in the world. But we know what it means and or we think we do. And we're going to learn more about all that. Let's get to my guests, Andrea Sporcic-Klund is the director of the Missouri Film Office. Andrea has been on the set of boots on the ground driving this process from back when we had a tax credit in the past, through the ten years in the wasteland, and then in the last year of all the excitement that's going on. Welcome. Thank you. Glad you're here. Really appreciate it. and next to Andrea is Bryan Krueger. Bryan is a CPA and a partner at SFW Partners. And Bryan has the distinction of being I don't know if you're how many you've done at least two so far already, but fully certified all the expenses for films, for the tax credit. Yeah, the first two. Yeah. That's very exciting. Welcome, Bryan. I'm looking forward to learning about that part of the process as well. Yeah. Thank you. And then Jessica Ambuehl, a local or regional worldwide, actually, when you hear from our, producer, director and actor who produced the first short film to be, accepted and go fully go through the tax credit program and can talk all about that from the role that many of you all know, which is that producer, the person putting it together and we want to focus on that role throughout this conversation today. Welcome, Jessica. Yeah, thanks all of you guys, for being here. let's, you know, in I want to see this up a little bit by saying one of the things that has become very clear to me in the last year or two, as this has come on board, is the importance of the role of the producer separate and apart from the other roles that many filmmakers have? Writer, director, producer, actor, you know, all of those things. It's very common. But you can't just get some money, shoot some footage, get some more money, shoot some footage and take advantage of this program. Right. So, Jessica, let me start with you. You have been that multi-hyphenate, a person you are. You have projects where you're doing all sorts of things. Tell us about how the role of the producer fits into this and how you got started, and or maybe how you took vision through the process. There's a little bit of a last minute idea, because the tax incentive that got into effect was that October 16th, October 16th. We knew that we were going to start filming vision early December. So as we started in people, my co-producer said, what do you think about doing the tax incentive? And I was like, let's try. but there's so much people to do before you even consider doing that, because until you get that pre-approval letter, none of the expenses actually count. So we couldn't buy any of our wardrobe or props. Nothing could be spent until we could see if we could get approved. So there was a lot of thought process, if it was beneficial to our film, and if we could actually manage that timeline well and managing it. That's something I think is really important. And we'll talk a little bit more about that as sort of how much time you have to do this and how much time you have to do that and that process. But you said something there that I think was interesting, but they wouldn't have occurred to me. And that's trying to decide if we even fit in this, is this good for us? In other words, what would if we want to do this? It's going to impose some things on us. Can we do that? Is that sort of what you might. Yeah, because we all know in our industry there's a lot of imposing things, right? There's a lot of work to get something from concept to screen. And so do you have the capability? Do you have the time to fill out the forms to wait for an approval? Do you have a good line producer and just someone keeping track of all the receipts? Are they kept the right way? We learned some things through the process of being audited that we didn't know going into it. And so do you have someone on your team that is willing to take care of that? And that's a great question. Do do we think that that is a a new team member, right. Or is that a skill that other team members just need to to add to their toolkit? You know, I mean, is that because I think of a line producer or someone and I realized this was probably unfair to line producers because I'm going to limit it to what I think of. But someone who can read a script and say, that's 22, two days and that's this, you know, do that work to put a budget together. But there's more than that, right? There's you said you can't you couldn't go buy your do your wardrobe, but you still had to figure out how much that was going to cost in order to put it in your budget, to put it in the tax credit application, which meant you still had to go to the leg room at work and find it all out. Right. Yes, the tax incentive can be a thought, but it's not your first step. You have to have a lot of things in line. Andrea can talk about to actually input into the form, to tell them whether or not that we are a good fit. And so it doesn't negate all that. It just adds to it. I think if you have strong team members that know what they're doing, that, have worked with the budgets and are good with details and don't mind the the paperwork, then you're good. I don't I think you have to have someone extra on it, but it is an extra thing for a producer to have to work with. Interesting. Okay, so if it's not your sharpest school skill set, you may want to find someone that is good at that or just add it to your toolkit. Right. I let's say you're speaking to someone who's very anal on the detail. So I would say you need that person on any project, no matter the budget. Right. Well that's true. So, speaking from experience, I'd say you need that no matter what. But it is, it is extra effort, and it might be worth the effort. And for us, for vision, it was very much so. Can you share the what your budget on vision One will tell us about vision, right. I said it right away without really talking about it. I can't share the budget. I'd have to kill all of you if we did that. I understand. but I can tell you vision is was unique because, you know, a client came to us and and we wrote the script as to tell a nonprofit story, and they had said, we have the money. And then 2020 hit and then we lost most of the money. We still had, I can tell you, a ten grand. So we said, well, let's do a teaser so that when things come back into life, maybe that can be enough to raise the rest of the money that we needed in the first place. So we had a one day shoot, ten grand teaser. Fast forward several years. We now have all the money. There were a number of revisions along the way. I did say, I said we worked so many so long on this. I don't want to put too much effort in until I see the money in the bank. Right? but once the money hit, it was go time. And so this. It's a short film for a nonprofit called Love the Lou. And they work in North City. The we actually met some of the requirements as far as being in a Blythe area and things that are come up in a tax incentive, application. But it was to bring positive light to, to what people are doing in the area to help people see that they can make a difference and they don't have to have special vision through these glasses that our main character finds. So, yeah. So we got funded. Thankfully, our lead is a very young face. So he had just graduated high school when we did the teaser. When I called them, he had just graduated college. he had a young face, so it worked. So we used all the footage, the ten grand, which we had to shave, or somebody has to shave. Yes. Yeah. but, you know, the ten grand we spent years ago didn't apply to the tax incentive, but we knew what we needed to do because we put together a line budget for a several day shoot to shoot the rest of it. And so we knew what that looked like, and then we kind of compensated. Well, how much how much more would the tax incentive bring to the film to stretch it? You know, and can we get people higher day rates? Can we afford this? You know, it's it does come into your mindset of how you plan. And so in that thinking, in that thought process, you're you're thinking of the tax credit as a way to acquire additional funding at the budgetary says not something to sell later to pay back investors, but to add so in that, you know, do you did you then find somebody to finance or loan against it or that process to, to fill out the budget? So co-producer Dan Parisot, Speak Up Productions, he has someone that he knows. Yeah. I literally said, I don't know that world. There are brokers that you can hire to sell that tax incentive. So it's not I think some people have the misnomer when they hear tax incentive. You don't get money right back. You don't get a check for the Missouri Film Office or the government saying, here's your $20,000. Congratulations. Right? It's a tax incentive, and there's so much work to still sell that off to make sure make that back. So you also have to plan for okay. So we got approved for the tax. And if we can spend these things now now we have there was a 90 days after our last build invoice. We had 90 days to be audited. We had to pay for that. And we learned some things through that too. And it all worked out beautifully. But you know, since we were kind of the guinea pig for being the short film and On Fire was the feature, that it's actually an honor to to be able to say that and to say just the day I was like, Andrea, there's one thing that we noticed, like our auditor, emailed the co-producer and he emailed me and said, the Chipotle lunch, that receipt. I said, yeah, it's in the Google Drive. It's on the spreadsheet. Yeah, it is, but it doesn't say the exact address of where you ordered it from. Now I'm anal, so I had three different versions of that receipt in my files and the one that I uploaded into our, our, you know, our shared folder for the CPA wasn't the right one, but I had another one that said it was off Chippewa and Saint Louis because you could you could get it from Nebraska. And, you know, so that would have cost a lot more to go over that one over. So, you know, things that you don't think of until you go through it. So that'll be helpful for people. Good to go through it to know that every single receipt has to have a Missouri address on it. That's I think that's so fascinating. Well, I and so will we. When will we be able to see vision? The vision premiered, last weekend at the Saint Louis Filmmakers Showcase. But then they can go online and social media. on a website. And then we have future. There's actually a speaking tour that's going on all across Saint Louis. Oh, that's to hopefully create conversations and people wanting to make a change. Well, we will put some information about that in show notes and people can check that out. That's that's exciting. Thank you for walking us through that. And I think obviously there's a number of things that you talk through that will lead to further details here. and Bryan, let me ask you, so, CPA, obviously you've been, is a partner. You've been practicing for a while now all of a sudden this new thing starts coming in. How did you get involved and how did you get involved with On Fire in particular? Yeah, sure. So, John O'Leary, who's the the movie, who's about? is actually a current client of mine. I do his tax work, and, he'd be fine if I shared that with you and his, one of his advisors came to me and said, hey, do you know anybody that can do an audit of a tax credit? I said, well, let me look at it. Maybe we can. And so that's initially how I got introduced to the idea. So once we looked at the requirements, the audit requirements, and ran through, the packet that the state puts together on the on the audit requirements, we said we certainly can do this. now I will say in November of 2023, I didn't even know what a loan out was. so that's how new it was to us and to our firm. But, you know, in going through the process, we have we have learned a lot. And, and it is a lot, and it's 100% audit. So we dig into every single and receipt, invoice, everything. And so, it can be kind of an arduous process if you don't have good record keeping and you're not organized and you don't have the proper systems in place to do that. But maybe you should mention two. There are two different audits. So for our film, we had to pay to be to audit ourselves. And then we send all of that paperwork and forms to the Missouri Film Office who has Bryan audit as well. So it's a two step. okay. It's the spot audit. Just a spot on it. Yeah. So yeah, you're got it. So and I, I guess one of the questions that that leads me to is, you know, again, and that you're talking about that early stage when you're putting this project together, is it helpful to consult with a CPA maybe early and say, what are you going to need from us to make sure that we can maximize it? So what would form would you like? Do you have an upload or is there a process that somebody hasn't done this before would be able to take advantage of? It sounds like an important conversation to have early. And how much does it cost? Well, yeah, because then you can put that into your line budget. If they're in Missouri then account spread your tax credit. Yeah. So they're important and legal expenses to folks hire a Missouri lawyer to do your entertainment legal because it is actually a line item in the budget. And your Missouri accountant. Right. Because those are qualified expenses. well, that's so. Okay. So, Bryan, then you you've got all these research, how long does it take or how long did your process take for a film like On Fire? So we were auditing as the production was going on. So I think kind of going back to your point on when to engage the accountant. And I think the earlier the better. So that you can have that conversation on how are you accumulating the information, how are you going to get it to us, how we're going to be able to access it? to use on fire, for example, they use, green slate, not promoting green slate, but that's a common accounting software in the entertainment industry. And so, we were able to give you only access and view all of the individual expenses, pull up the receipt. And it was very easy for us to navigate and understanding that on the front end for both the producers, the production accountant, and for us to get on the same page, I think is, is, critical, to make it efficient. That makes a lot of sense. You just use the term there that I think it's worth unpacking a little bit. The production accountant. So that's a different role then your role as the audit, correct? Yeah. The production accountant is primarily who we work with. and, you know, maybe on a smaller production that is also someone who does tend to for other things. But, on some films that, that it's just a production accountant and that's who we work with to get the information for the on that it was through them. And then in the role of the production accountant on set or on a production, is just that person who has all that, gets all the receipts, make sure everything's documented. That's everything. Correct? Yeah, it's a producer, a line producer. Yeah. It depends what size, right. Project it could be. Yes. okay. Well, and I think that's important for me. It's helpful to understand we get questions a lot from, you know, clients who are or are sometimes very talented and have done lots of work. But this process is new, right? And it's new for us, too. So understanding those little nuances, is great. And I also want to, you know, I'm, I'm a little more comfortable than I used to be about talking using terms like line producer at a cocktail party. You know, I know what it means. And we can go to cocktail parties anymore. I don't know what we do. It here. but that's, That's great. Well. Thank you. Andrea, you know, you're you're sort of hearing this from the the point of view of, you know, Jessica, the producer and Bryan, the CPA. But from your perspective where, you know, I I've heard I've heard you say this to people and I've heard lots of people say that they've had this experience. If you don't know if you have questions, then call your office, correct? Yes. And we have all the guidelines and everything is on our website Mo film.org under tax incentives, the motion media production tax credit. So and the guidelines really do walk you through the whole process. There's a flowchart, there's pictures. It's kind of dry. But we're gonna have a video, an animated video soon. So little sneak peek. the tax credit for producing the animated video did not. We did not apply. We did not spend the minimum. No. But that a lot of the questions are the same. Questions. I mean, and we try to give you as much and we, you can please send in your application materials and before you get it notarized, at least be notarized. I mean, this is state government. It there's it's a bureaucracy. This is taxpayer dollars. We are entrusted to these funds. And it behooves us to make sure that they're following the rules. So, so ask all the questions so that you guys do. All right. So, yeah, no, I think that's that's a good reminder that this is. And I like what you said, earlier, Jessica, about the fact that this isn't a check. It is something that is set up to if you follow these rules and you spend this money in the state, and you hire Missouri companies and Missouri residents and so forth, then and you get it audited correctly and you've got all your receipts, then the state will issue a tax credit. And can you just tell us a little bit, talk about this a lot, but kind of remind people what that tax credit actually is in terms of. It goes to them first. It goes to the Missouri company that is the production company for whatever applies. The company that applies for it. It'll be in their name, but they're completely transferable. So there's a form and you can break it up and sell it however you want to. You can sell someone's this much to this person, this much it you don't have a tax liability personally if you have the production company doesn't and their investors don't have a tax like I mean it could be that's what you give your investors as their payback for their investment. Or you can sell them via banks or brokers. And then so if you, have a if you sell it to a bank or broker or somebody like that, if it's somebody who will have a Missouri tax liability over the next 5 or 10 years, so they can use it in so many periods. Yeah. five years forward. Yes. Got it. okay. And that's and I think that's an important reminder. And so let me ask a question that we get asked a lot is a timing question. So how quickly let's assume you've got somebody that's got their financing in place, got everything pretty much ready. And they're ready to submit that letter, that application. How quickly does the approval, approval process happen from your office? Okay. So it's important that you are pretty locked into your first day of principal photography. So that's going to tell us when. And we give you a 15 day wiggle room. But if it's beyond that then it's it's revoked and you have to reapply. So because we don't want to have a production hold up a bunch of tax credits that we could have another project. So that's just how it has to work. So can you, can you walk me back through that just to make sure I understanding this timeline. So, you know, among the things you fill out in the application form, one of the things is what is your anticipated date? prints for track. Do you if I think that's going to be 45 days out now, can I still put my application in now? As long as you can stay within 15 days of that date, as long as you're pretty tight on that. and then your so noted she did mention so the approval letter. So you apply, everything's in check all the boxes we have, everything we tell you that is received. You have ten days. We have ten days to approve it and we've done it in less days. We've done it. We've had extended it like twice, I think, just because of the holidays. But yeah. So we say in ten days we will you will have a decision letter and then your decision letter, the date of the decision letter is the date that you can start spending money. Spending money doesn't mean you can't accrue bills. You can accrue bills previous, but you can't pay anybody until that date for it to count. And that's a really okay. That's a really important thing because I think a lot of people are trying to understand, you know, I've got a I've got to get a commitment that I'm going to pay this and I'm going to pay that. And they they've sent me all this, you know, I know what it's going to be. Can they send me an invoice for like or a deposit form or things like that. As long as it is it all triggered by when I pay when you pay the, the check when you pay. Yeah. And so when, when you engage with somebody that's going to let's say you, you sign up for craft service or whatever the different things and you, they commit. Okay. We will be there these days. We have all this. This is going to be the cost they may want to deposit or something like that to guarantee if, if I've got the commitment but I haven't paid yet, then I can pay once, once I get the letter. Okay. but if I have to pay a deposit, if I to pay them a deposit now before the letter, then deposit is not going to come. Right. Okay. So that's that's really important to know. and when you so and one of the things you've said before is that in order to get approval letter, one of the things you have to do is you have to know your financing is in place, at least up to the amount that you're going to ask for the credit. Correct. So your, qualified Missouri spend will talk about what that means in a minute. you have to show proof of financing that you have that much money in the bank to go through production. So it has to be in the bank. Are you showing up? And, an investor letter would work. bank statement, all kinds of reports, some kind of a some kind of an actual binding commitment. Correct. So if I've got a, client and they and they've got a commitment from an investor and they've got to sign a subscription agreement or whatever, and now we know that this is and that could be because conceivably in that context, there could be some triggering events that you know, if you don't do this, I'm not sending you the money. But if you do, I'm committed. And then you do this, then the money comes in. Would that be sufficient to show okay. Yes. Like a term sheet. Yeah. Yeah. But you really do need proof of financing. Not just. Yes. Saying yes. Okay. And I think you made a really good point for why that is, because we have a cap. We have a so much each year that we can do. And you can't give people approval letters what they don't. And they're running around chasing money because someone else is ready to go won't get their correct. Okay. That's so let's how are we in mid-July with our cap this year? Yes. So, of the bucket, we have 8 million for film and we have 3 million left currently. And then we have 8 million for episodic. We currently have 6 million available. And it will re-up again in January. So we're hopeful that we will continue to see projects coming in. About 20 projects have applied or are applying for the incentive at the moment. Yeah. Do you do you have any sense of how that compares to other states in terms of volume when they're first getting launched? I'm just curious because one of the questions that comes up a lot is, well, is this really doing it? How does this does it really do much? Yeah. Everyone wants these numbers that we don't have yet. We've only done one incentive. So basically our office, every time we issue. And so that that's the very end we issue it. once it's issued, we'll do a press release with all the numbers that are on fire to have that press release that went out. visions will come out next week, probably, and then as it goes. Yeah. Right. And so okay, that's, that's and I know we're all watching this, right? I mean, that's, that's part of the excitement here. And I think a lot of us are trying to figure out how to participate, to help it grow. so you talked about the Missouri qualifying expenses and anyone of you, the how do we track that as a, you know, when you're putting together maybe just good to start with you, I'm putting this project together. I'm the producer. And you talked about all the different factors. You know, one of the things I think you mentioned earlier when we were talking before we started is, that you have an Illinois address, but if you're engaged by a loan out company or a payroll company that's based in Missouri, your services can count. Is that right? Yeah. That was one thing that we were talking through to try to figure out how to work out, right. Me, little old me, that comes from right over the river. So. Right. And I was a big part of the film. So it's a nice those are important things to think about us. You know, we want to hire as many people here as possible. Right. But when you can't, even if you're 15 minutes away from the Ark. Right. how does that still apply? So we we learned that, you know, our payroll service was in Missouri. So as long as I went through payroll, we were good. Some of our crew were 1099, but they lived in Missouri, so that was okay. Okay. our production insurance company was not in Missouri. That's a large budget line item and an independent film. Yeah, they weren't in Missouri, so that didn't count. So and then we had a couple, there was just some small little ones too. You know, if you buy something on Amazon might come quick, but that's not going to count. You know, there's those little things you have to kind of balance and try to as producers, our job is to balance and to preplan as much as possible, put out the fires, anticipate what's coming so that when they do come on set, it's less worrisome. And you can you can tackle it with grace. Right. So yeah. Interesting. Okay. And it's all those little things. I mean, when we were here, we were here last November when the right after the tax credit came out, in a, in a similar kind of presentation. And I remember somebody using the example and I want to make sure I'm right because I've said this to others. So I hope I was right, like you gave the example. Like if you go if you have some travel, you go on southwest.com and buy a bunch of plane tickets. Not going to count. But if you hire a Missouri based travel agent, they can go on southwest.com and book everything, send you an invoice for all of it, and you get an invoice from Travel Agent Missouri. It all comes there, right? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So basically there's two there's wages and comp and compensation, which you've talked about, you can be in right now. We have lost a lot of crew in the last ten years. So we the percentage that you, applies to everything. So whatever percentage you get applies to everything and wages as long as you're paying Missouri withholding, that is the only thing that has to happen. And all of your wages and compensation packages count, all of that counts. And then vendors, if it's a Missouri vendor with a Missouri address, it counts. That's pretty simple. I know it gets real complicated, but those are simple things, I think. And I think that's important to remind people because it can seem complicated. And Bryan, you're that world is to many of us is very complicated to do it right. But there are a few simple things to remember. And I think, Andrea, you just you just said that very well. And I've heard you say this before, the goal isn't to trick you up. The goal isn't to try it. Now, we're not giving you that much. The goal is to hire people in Missouri. Right. And so we want you to do it right. So there's more money spent here. So we can all go back to our state legislators and tell them how great this program is. And we need to keep it and grow it and improve it and do things like that. well that's great. I listen, I appreciate all of you, first of all, coming here and taking the time, to join us here. this conversation could go on and will and continue, but I a couple of key things I want to sort of take away as we wind things up here on this episode is and remind people website how to find information. No film dawg, no film.org under tax incentives. Most immediate everything. They'll take you to the guidelines. All the answers are in the guidelines. And Bryan, I'm sure you're ready to give out your cell phone number. So lots of aspiring filmmakers can call you up and not be able to for you, but want you to give a lot of free time. Is that right? yeah. No, not really. But how are you? Is there a community, do you know of CPAs who are focusing in on that? So it seems to me that that's something that. So the I'll jump in here, the tax credit, the film tax credit is new, but we have 62 tax credit programs in the state that all work the same. So anybody that has worked on any of those. So that's what I did first was like reach out to accountants that have worked on previous, previous tax credits. And then, we reached out through the volunteer Lawyers and accountants for the Arts. And so we're I have a list, a small list. There's like three people on it right now that have said that they're willing to take these clients. So Bryan has been very busy. He's one of them so well. And that's great. And that's a reminder of the resource for, you know, our audience. Many of you probably already know this. but anybody listening, volunteer lawyers and accountants of the arts is a great organization to help learn about. And we all volunteer here on the legal side with VLA. but that's I, of course, the accountants and say makes a lot of sense. Right. That's great. well thank you. And then Jessica, you we talked about vision. anything else we should be watching for that you can tease us about? Or do you have to be on camera somewhere tomorrow? What's next for you? I have a production meeting in Chattanooga, and I'm heading to tomorrow. I actually just got cast in a commercial in Saint Louis next week, and then we have pre-production for a true crime docu series next week. And I had to Africa a couple months later. That's awesome. The whole we need to come back. Will you come back and, guest and just talk about Africa, because I've heard some of these stories and it's it's such a cool project that you do. So I would love to talk to you more about that. All right. Last question for each of you. I do this all the time on the podcast. Andrea, what's on your screen? And that could mean anything like that could be the screen you have in your pocket. That could be the screen, like. So not necessarily what I'm watching, but you know, how do you what when someone says, what's on your screen, what's my computer screen? Unfortunately I'm looking at text applications. That's what's always on my screen. Yeah. Me too easy of an answer for me. Palm Royale. I just finished watching that. That was good job. Yeah, yeah, I'm a fan. We're two episodes. Oh, yeah. Stick with it. Okay, good. Yeah, that's. I'm always looking for that kind of. I usually ask this question to find out what I should watch. so that's good. All right, Bryan, what's on your screen? we just came back from Cancun from vacation. And on the plane ride back, I watched, A Beautiful Mind. I love that movie. I've watched it several times, I love it. That's awesome. That that got a whole. I don't know if you heard on the audience, but the whole audience went, oh, yeah, okay. That's that's really cool. Jessica, what's on your screen? last night I got caught up with the Dragon show as a Game of Thrones. The dragon, the House of Dragons, house of Dragons. All right. I want to know the name, to go and tell me if you want to have anybody. There's always someone who dies, right? so Emma Williams, who introduced us when we got started here, who's our hostess? And I'm at Saint Louis. tonight. He was my guest last week, and we talked about that show, and he said, yeah, I it's okay, but I just keep watching to see who dies. So I think that was great fun. Yeah. No. Exactly. All right. Well, that's great. All of you. Thank you. Thank you for this I appreciate it. and folks in the audience here, folks who will see this or hear this, if you like this content, please, if you're watching on YouTube, hit that like and subscribe button. I'm supposed to go like this. It'll be on screen and an arrow approach up. we'd love to hear, your comments. if you listen to audio podcast, where, wherever you're audio podcasts are Apple, Spotify, wherever you get them, you can find us there. And, if you're looking for any other information about any of the work we do, you can find us at TheScreenLawyer.com. Thanks a lot, everybody. And thank you guys for coming tonight. All right. All right.