Cinema Saint Louis: Festivals, Education, and Community with Emmett Williams #212

In this episode of The Screen Lawyer Podcast, host Pete Salsich welcomes Emmett Williams, Director of Festival Curation and Education for Cinema Saint Louis. Emmett shares his insightful journey from documentary filmmaker to his current pivotal role, revealing his passion for nurturing the local film community.

Discover the collaborative process behind film selection, dive into the organization’s innovative year-round education programs, and learn about their unique festivals hosted at the historic Hi-Pointe Theatre. Emmett highlights the incredible benefits of launching a film career in Saint Louis, the vital role of proper documentation, and the positive impact of the Missouri Motion Media Tax Credit.

Listen in as they discuss the challenges of film distribution, the importance of a supportive local ecosystem, and the invaluable feedback provided to aspiring student filmmakers. This episode is packed with expert insights and practical advice for anyone interested in the vibrant world of cinema. 

Original Theme Song composed by Brent Johnson of Coolfire Studios.
Podcast sponsored by Capes Sokol.

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Transcript

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Movies in the Midwest. Films in Saint Louis. The Saint Louis International Film Festival. Saint Louis Filmmakers Showcase this is all part of the world of Cinema Saint Louis and joining me on the podcast today is Emmett Williams, Director of Festival Curation and Education for Cinema Saint Louis. And the guy that gets to decide what movies get in these film festivals. Welcome, Emmett. Thank you for having me. And I want to stress that it's a team of programmers that I simply lead and guide. And I do make some decisions, but we have a whole team that decides which films get in there, right? Well, you know what, folks stick around for this podcast episode because you're going to learn all about that team. Hey there. Welcome to The Screen Lawyer Podcast. I'm Pete Salsich, The Screen Lawyer, and my guest today is Emmett Williams, Director of Festival Curation and Education for Cinema Saint Louis. It's a big title, apparently took you quite a long time to come up with that title. Right. But it's hard because it's, you know, we have four film festivals throughout the year. We have a lot of little weekend festivals that are really specialized, and we have, you know, we're planning on having a year round education program. And so that's a lot to fit into one title. So. Got it. Well that's great. So let's dig in. Let's unpack all of that. That's very cool. So what we're talking about here is an organization that's been here in Saint Louis for a long time now. Cinema Saint Louis, and it's probably most known, I think, for hosting the Saint Louis International Film Festival, which has been put on for more than 30 years. But are we coming up on 32, 33, 32? 33? Okay, yeah, but it'll be my first one. So my first one that I am, you know, the curator of, I had a film in the festival a few years ago. Right. And that's when I sort of connected with the organization, and I sort of saw that our sort of views and what we want to see. But with film in Saint Louis, our, our, our interests were aligned. And I've been a documentary filmmaker for a really long time. Yeah. And then, then I was like, you know what? I I'm from Saint Louis originally. And so I was like, you know what? I want to help the Saint Louis film community. Yeah, that's very cool. And that's we our interests certainly align, and we've got to know each other over the last couple of years, as we both are sort of working for that same larger thing. And that's helping this community of, you know, very talented filmmakers and production people grow their craft and see themselves, see stories like themselves on. And I'm more involved in making sure they can run their business or get their film on screen because they've got the rights. But we both have that same interest. Yeah. And it's and it's all from, you know, it's all part of a large sort of filmmaker arc. You know, there are there's a great sort of, group of people who are teaching people in Saint Louis the basics how to how to hold a camera, where to put the camera right, all the basics of filmmaking. And then there's, you know, there's great organizations like Saint Louis Film and Missouri Film who are helping filmmakers, you know, write scripts and do all these other parts. And then there is, you know, the the legal things which which sure don't always get taught and are really difficult. And as a filmmaker, filmmaker, I can say that I don't want to ever think about it. And so what it's great is that you're here, and you and I mean, people don't realize how like, helpful you've been to Saint Louis filmmakers. So I appreciate that. And like, I don't want, you know, people to like asking you for free things, but I but I feel like I feel like I can I can come to you and be like. Nor do I my colleagues. Yeah, exactly. But I feel like I can come to you and say, you know, Pete, I need this. I don't know what this legal thing is. And you helpful, very helpful with that. And I also know that if I know a filmmaker who has some sort of legal question, I can send to the you that you'll you'll be fair and straight with them. Well, I appreciate that. That's that's that is what I mean. That's what I do. That's what I want to do. Right? And that's, you know, over, fairly long career now and aging. I've gotten to the point where I get to do almost all of my work in this entertainment space, and I love it because, being around creative people, being part of that process, you know, I don't hold a camera. I wouldn't know where to put a camera. you don't want me asking for advice on the script, but what I love being able to do is bring the sort of my professional ability as part of the team that helps this thing get on the screen and get people comfortable with the fact that lawyers don't have to be scary in the space. In fact, they're necessary. We're a part of a team like anything else, and they're not only necessary as this is, but it can be a podcast about lawyers... which is great! I know this is great, but I think what a lot of sort of baby filmmakers don't understand is that you need to have a location release, you need to have a personal release, you need to have contracts, maybe with your crew or people that you hire. I mean, as a documentary filmmaker, it's mainly just the personal releases and the location releases. But I've gotten in trouble before when I, you know, didn't have all of my paperwork aligned. And I wish, I wish I had had someone like you to just to, you know, just really simple. I could send a release or a contract to and say, is this legit? Yeah. No. Well, this I mean, the way the message I got when I first got into doing this part of the work was the just how awful it is to fall in love with footage that you can't use. Yeah, because it's too late to go back and get that person to sign something or whatever. So no, I, I, I'm glad that that's, I'm glad that we get the opportunity to work together to help help filmmakers. And I want to I want to focus in about, about the work at Cinema Saint Louis and your role and some things that are coming up. So we as as regular subscribers, thank you. And listeners know, we release an episode every other week. Well, this episode is going to release, right before the upcoming Saint Louis Filmmaker Showcase. And correct me if I'm wrong, but as I've always understood it, the Saint Louis International Film Festival that Cinema Saint Louis puts on is in November, and that is a true international film festival. Films come from all over the world that we had, some amazing films last November that were Oscar nominated. The Holdovers, The Holdovers, American Fiction. America. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, when the directors of these amazing films are standing in front of the audience doing a Q&A in a packed, beautiful old theater, it's kind of magical. It's. Yeah, it's really special. And I think that people don't realize that, you know, those are there may might not be the world premieres, but they're right. You know, they're the Saint Louis premieres of these films. Right. And and we have, you know, there's some of those things happening this year. Yeah. it's yeah, it's really exciting. And, and The Holdovers. It was packed. American Fiction sold out last year. It's just. Yeah, it's really those are special, special thing and only happens once a year here. Yeah. Saint Louis where you really get to feel like you're watching something that, you know, nobody else in the world is, you know, they're going to see it soon. But you got there early. Yeah. That's a really cool thing. And so it's, it's a, it's a, you know, an international film festival, very, competitive to get in. But then what what's coming up? which will be just in a couple days when the episode drops, is the Saint Louis Filmmaker Showcase, which is, I think, in its 24th year. And that is a similar sort of week long two weekends collection of many films to see shorts, docs, full length narratives, everything else. But all of the films have some connection to Saint Louis, either the filmmaker or the story or something. Is that right? That's that's correct. We get about 118 submissions, you know, Saint Louis filmmaker based over the last year or so. Okay. You know, our the opening night film lines Mesopotamia. The team that edited the film, the post-production team is based in Saint. Okay. So. And that's the Saint Louis connection. It's an amazing film. Debuted at South by Southwest this year. just really incredible story. Oh, the Iraqi civil war and how the how the the Iraqi community sort of like, rallied around the soccer team. Oh, wow. Yeah, really, really amazing film. And so after the film, not only will we have people who were there in Iraq during the Civil War, we'll be talking to the do a Q&A, but also the editing team. So part of the Saint Louis Filmmakers Showcase is not just sort of giving a space for Saint Louis filmmakers to have their work on screen, but it's also about educating. So, yeah, it's we want, filmmakers to be there to learn from the editing team. about what? About what what the process was like to work on a huge international feature that's going to be in theaters someday. So wow, that's very cool. And that's what I love about the showcase in the summer, is it feels to me a little bit more like the local community all stepping up and applauding each other, cheering each other. You see certain people in more than one film, or you look, if you look closely at the credits, you see that somebody that was a writer on this one was a grip on they just all helping. Yeah, there's a lot of that. And isn't it the case that some of the films in the showcase that are winners of certain awards, they then get invited to the film festival in November, the last day of the festival. We're giving out 11 awards that include Best film, Best Actor or best animation, best Experimental film. But we're also giving out for the first time the Mayor's Award. Okay, partnering with the mayor's office and the mayor may be there, like, right now. Right now, we think she's going to be there to hand out the award for the best student film. So we also we also we're also working with all of the universities in the city to we sort of made sure that all the students knew and had a way to submit their films. Good. And choose some of the best student films. So yeah, it's really we're really about making sure that every not only does everybody see themselves on the screen, but also everybody in Saint Louis knows that they have a chance to have their film. I think that is such a that to me, that is, is is as important as any other message in the process is that this is possible and you know, you and I've talked about and I've talked about on this podcast, the the fact that late last year, the new Missouri film Tax Credit, the Missouri Motion Media Tax Credit, technically because it's both film and and series, went into action and now we have not only talent but we've got this tax credit, which is a tremendous financial resource. You have to understand how it works. Right. And and it elevates the need for maybe local filmmakers who've never really understand the classic role of the producer putting the whole thing together before you start rolling any camera, right? Yeah. But if that's when that's available, the level of films that both come into town and they get made here and the people who may see themselves, hey, I don't have to leave, right to do this for a living. I can make a career here in this, you know, field that I love. Yeah, right here in town. So the showcase is a huge the way for people to see that it is it's a you know, I started my career in a New York City and I was making TV and film there, and it's just so much easier to do it in a place that you can afford to live like. Like if I'm honest, you know, I got to the point where I didn't have to, you know, because I was living in a place that was more affordable. I didn't have to, like, take a second job because I, you know, right. You know, that sort of thing. And so staying here, there's so many advantages. Also, if you do need to get to the coast or Chicago, you know, we're we're equidistant from everywhere. It's it's really a great place to be a filmmaker. And also there's outside of, you know, looking outward for your success. There's a really great ecosystem here that is doing a lot of great work. Like you said, there's a lot of filmmakers that are in a few in like actors in a few different things. Right. And, and so yeah, it's really it's really exciting what's happening here. Yeah. And that's been, you know, part of I just started the job in January. And so that's been one of the not surprises, but one of the best parts about learning and listening from the community is that there's a lot of stuff already happening here. And my job is to support it. Yeah. That's I think that's I think that's great. And so I want to talk kind of about what your job is like, like, you know, I yeah, in years ago I had when I was a young lawyer, I was involved in a case, long running, lawsuit involving comic books. And we represented, Image Comics, in Todd MacFarlane. And one of my jobs for a week. I kid you not, it's still maybe my favorite week is a lawyer in some ways. Was I got to read all 200 plus issues of Spawn comics in order, and take some notes about how many times this character showed up because the lawsuit had to do with certain things like that, but it was all billable. So I'm getting my time sheets, you know, read Spawn Comics 9.4 (hours). I was like, wow, I was awesome. So, so what? And I say that because that was one week and then I had to go back to it. But you're part of your job is just watching film. It is, you know, for for the Saint Louis International Film Festival, we get about 2500 submissions for the Saint Louis Filmmaker Showcase, about 118. But then there's also Q Fest that we take submissions for. And so I do joke that my job is to sit in my pajamas and watch films all day, and there is a lot of film watching there is. That is a huge part of my job. But it's also the reason that, you know, curating is in the title is because it's not just choosing the best film, it's choosing like how this film will work in Saint Louis. How would my if it's a short how it's going to work with other films? I just watch this really amazing film for the Saint Louis Center, and maybe I shouldn't be saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway. So it's true, but I think so. Film programmers, curators get a lot of grief/hate sometimes because they don't choose somebody’s film. Sure, I can imagine and and I've been on that side also, like I've been like, how come you didn't take my film? It should have fit there. But there's so many different things that go into it that's it's not just the quality of the film, it's also where it would fit into a program. Can it sell in Saint Louis is going to work. I just watch this really amazing film that I won't get the details of for, but I was like, it was, you know, sort of on the border between great and good. And the whole time I'm watching it, I'm thinking, I don't know if Saint Louis is going to come out for this film. Like sometimes things just don't work. Yeah. And every festival goes through that. And that's just the thing that filmmakers in such efforts have to realize. It's a like the sort of the quote that is in, you know, the film festival programing books that exist. There are three of them. I with them, there is a film for every now there's a festival for every film, but not every festival can take every film. Impressive. That makes sense. Just like some things just don't fit. And so when, the hardest part of my job is telling filmmakers that they didn't get into the festivals. Yeah. but the best part of my job is the one that the letter from a filmmaker saying, thank you so much. I worked so hard on this. I really appreciate you, you know, putting into the film. And so, yeah, it's great. And but also, you know, for showcase, we have a lot of student films out of student films from all over the city. And so I don't do this for anybody else but students. But I told every student that if they wanted to talk about their film and why they didn't get in, oh, yeah, come to me. And we would talk about it and it was really great. Do they do many of them take you up on that? About half of them. Good. And they wrote these really sincere emails that were that just make you want to help them grow their career. Right. So my goal is to sort of take their hand and make them the filmmakers that they want to be. Yeah. And so it's not just saying this could have been different on your film. It's about like, how can we help you? Yeah. So we're working with all the universities in the city to sort of say, what can we do for you? How can we serve your students? how can we help them become part of the film Saint Louis film community? So that's that's that's the other best part of my job. Yeah, that's really cool. I like, I, for a long time now have regularly gone out, to Webster University and then recently to Lindenwood, to speak to their film programs, you know, just really like a guest lecture for a session about what I talk about. Right. Understanding your contracts and how copyright works and those sorts of things. because I agree with you. I mean, there's there's the part of it's not just, you know, oh, this lighting could have been better or whatever, but it's also understanding what it might be like to have a career here. Yeah. What are some things that you want to master or things that you need at least to understand? Yeah. so that you feel confident in going forward. Yeah. And I think, I think another thing that some that should be included in those conversations is what does success look like. Oh sure. yes. For some people, unless they're a celebrity or star, that's what success means to you, right? You know, 1% of whatever the number is. Yeah. Of everybody who wants to be a professional doing this becomes a celebrity. It's less than 1%. But it's something, something, something 1%. But there's so many different ways to be successful as a filmmaker. Sure. And, I think that's something that people should also think about. Like, what does that mean to them? Well, I think and I'm glad you said that, because one of the things I think that hopefully the new film Tax Credit helps our region understand and really statewide is that this is in fact, an industry. It's a huge industry. I've heard other people use this term. I like it a lot. It's a 21st century trade, right? You've got young people that for whom maybe traditional college is not this thing, but you know what? They've been filmmakers since they can pick up their parents I-pad and start, you know, telling stories. But here's a way to marshal that into a genuine career, right? It can be really very can be lucrative. You can raise your family and have a great time doing what makes you happy and proud to be creative. And it's such a team. The one of the first things that blew me away when I got into the. I was younger in my career, I was doing entertainment related things, but they were mostly lawsuits. When I started working more with production companies and understanding what went into a set, I don't think I had any appreciation about how much of a teamwork effort it is, because before I knew any of this, I didn't watch all the credits after the cast. I didn't watch it all. Now I watch all the credits because I just love the fact that there's so many people involved, and you see that on a regular basis. I mean, you said you have a team, even for your group. Yeah. So even, you know, even as my career as a filmmaker, it started out just being I wanted to write TV shows and, and I and I did, but it wasn't sort of as fulfilling as I wanted. And then I went to be a documentary filmmaker, and that was more what I wanted. But also I was still doing a lot of different things on the side. I made films for nonprofits, so there was some, sort of international organizations I made things for. There's so many different ways to make a, make a living. Yeah, as a filmmaker. And I think it's really important that filmmakers see that there's so many different options. And now that I, you know, have a job for the first time and in ten years, I congratulations thank you. Thank you very much. I see this I see this the curation part as, as an extension of the storytelling that I want to see, that I want to see in the world. And so that's that's one of the things that I love about this. I really get to be creative, trying to figure out which films can work here and there. What can I, what can I do to help filmmakers be the best filmmakers they can be? How how we can build community in Saint Louis. So it's all it's an extension of what I would be doing anyway. I that's I that's amazing to think about that because I think there is a story to tell that. And part of that story is that this is a place to make films. Yeah, this is a place to tell stories. This is a place to, you know, do television to do. We all spend so much time on our screens. Which leads me to my last question, which I didn't prep before, which was good. So what I like to ask people as we align things, first of all, thank you know, thank you for coming in today. This has been terrific. I hope everybody's found it educational. One of the things that I like to do, you know, we I call myself a screen lawyer. My work is involved with things getting on screens and screens are everywhere. Right? iPads, phones. What's on your wall? So I like to ask people what's on your screen. And you get to decide what you what I mean by that. If your brain goes, oh well, it's what I was just game. I was on my phone, I can't stop or it's whatever I'm watching on the wall. At the end of the day when I want to shut it down or what's on my screen at work. What's on your screen? Emmet, this is going to be such a long answer. I'm so sorry about the outtakes that I'm getting, so it depends on which screen and where I am. Okay, so I try my sort of general goal is to work/watch films for SLIFF

and Showcase up until like 9: 22:13

00 ish. Okay? Like, it sounds like that I'm, you know, 12 hours of watching films, but sometimes that's what it is. So during the day I'm watching films that are potentially for the Saint Louis International film. So that's that's for work. That's that's for work. So that's on that screen. And then I try and take a break and watch, you know, I'm like, I'm going to watch a serious film now because I'm, I'm like, but then like at the end of the day, I just want to watch like Modern Family reruns or like Game of Thrones reruns, because the first time I like, I didn't get all the names. Sure. And I'm so when I'm watching with captions and so. Yeah. And are you are you a House of Dragons fan or are you current? I'm watching it. I don't love it, but I'll it's one of the things where I'll. I'll keep watching just to find out for sure who kills who, but, But I have seen the most recently. I don't have any spoilers. Yeah, I don't, I don't love it, but I'll keep watching it. Yeah. and so but there are some really like this great film showing at the Hi-Pointe. Like our. Yeah, Brett Smith is doing an amazing job of curation here. So we should make sure we highlight that before we go. Yeah. Real quick. So the Hi-Pointe Theater traditional classical theater, one of maybe the only one still standing in town. Yeah, yeah, one of the few anywhere, over a hundred years old, that is, Cinema Saint Louis recently acquired it as the home base. And now the film festival and the showcase. That's where the events are. That's the highlight. There's programing elsewhere in town, right? Because you have too many things going on for only one screen. Yeah, but it is such a cool place. It's such a cool place. And Brett Smith came on from when I came on. Okay. And he is the theater director, but I'm not sure that's his title. I'm just like that. Right? I'm sorry for that, that I haven't memorized your title. but he programs the day to day right of the Hi-Pointe, and it's it's his curation is so good. It's like, if I didn't, you know, work there sometimes or get in free, I would be there anyway. Like like the film, the films he's been choosing the last six months have been incredible. Also, we have the best popcorn on this and he's absolutely 100%. so that's another really comfortable seats. Yeah, really comfortable seats. So if I'm going to a movie theater, that's often where I'm going to that's that screen. But I also on on my iPad, there's a lot of, you know, I, there's a lot of talk about streaming. Yeah. And how they're like none of the streamers except for maybe Netflix are really figuring out how to make that work financially. Yeah. and that's an whole other conversation. that part of the business. I was like, oh, yeah, what to do with your film? distribution. Yeah. Distribution. Yeah. but, you know, I'm on YouTube a lot. YouTube the. They know what I want to watch. Yeah. And so I'm actually on watch and if you haven't already, you're going to hit like and subscribe on our YouTube channel. You get all the screen lawyer stuff. Good. Yeah. See, folks, that's how you do it. Yeah. Well done. I subscribe to you on on Apple Podcasts. Well good actually even better. Well you can do both right I'm going to do both now. I can't now that you know that you'll be eye candy. You can now be part of that. Hey, this has been fantastic, Emmitt. Thank you. I really I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to folks. You know, we spent a lot of time talking about how the films get made or the legal issues that come up, but but hearing more about after they've been made, how they end up on the screen, how the film, how the the presentation side of the industry. Yeah. Like making the film is not even half the battle. It's it's like once you make your film, it's getting like getting people to see it. Yeah. You know, that's, that's even that's like when the real work starts, like I've definitely made films that nobody saw that I'm proud of the work. Right. But literally nobody saw because I just didn't have a distribution plan. Right. I didn't I wasn't that organized. I didn't have a lawyer, so. Well, and then that's a role that, like, the festivals play a really important part of that. Yeah. So that's very cool, folks. If you, want more information, it's cinema at Saint louis.org. Right. CinemaStLouis.org. Yeah. we'll put that in the show notes. lots of information there about the showcase, about the festival. we've been a proud sponsor for a number of years now. I really, really value that relationship. Yeah. if you like, the podcast is Emmett does subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and audio, find and follow us there. And if you're watching us on YouTube, hit that like and subscribe button. We'd love to have you in our be in your ears and in your eyes more often, and you can always find information about all the things we do at TheScreenLawyer.com. Thanks, Emmett. Thanks for having me, Pete. All right. See you. We'll see you then. All right. Take care, folks.